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Contax ND

to DJ Garcia:

It seems like you are like me in terms of being more happy with the ND than everybody else. Perhaps, there is some cameras that are just put together better than the rest?
 
Irakly, can't wait. It seems like I was getting better stuff when I first got the camera. Recent studio work in B&W really showed me what 85/1.4 can do at least stopped down. Wait until you hook up your tuned ND to the Elinchrom Octabox. Can't wait to tune my up.
 
Irakly,

So it would appear. When did you get yours? As far as my N Digital goes, the body has to be very recent, as it came with the 1.07 and 1.08 updates and a CD-ROM with Raw Dev 2.0. And I just received the rebate, two weeks after!

I think also, we are entering a new paradigm in photography and we will have to make some adjustments in how we think and approach certain aspects.

QUICK BIO
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Let me state up-front that I am a technical person (system architect) - I replace my motherboard, not my PC :). I have owned and extensively used (non-professionally) many camera systems throughout the years (I'm 53): Olympus OM-1, Contax RTS I II & III, 139, 137MD, Nikon F4, Mamiya RB-67, Bronica GS-1, Fuji GX-680, Linhof Technikardan 23s. I used to do all my darkroom work, film (VPS, NSP, Reala [my favorite!] and paper (Kodak & Fuji, my favorite the Fuji Superglossy/triacetate backing like original Cibachromes) in a Jobo ATL-3 toward the latter period. I shoot mostly travel stuff. I love light, texture and compositional challenges. About 5 years ago I ran out of energy ...

Current equipment: N Digital, 24-85mm and 70-300mm Zeiss, Kodak 8500 printer.
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END BIO

I've actually been sitting here scratching my head after reading Martin's posts. This camera has some teething problems, but right now I wouldn't change it for anything currently on the market, and even looking at the upcoming bodies from Kodak, Nikon and Canon, I'd rather have the ND with the Zeiss lenses (I shoot mostly with the zooms nowadays). Keep in mind my check doesn't depend on this camera
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.

I can get a beautiful 20x30 with lots of detail (try that with an RTS III and Reala - the grain will be noticeable). The new ones coming up will definitely be sharper at that size with 12+ megapixels, but I don't think there will be noticeable improvement in tonal reproduction, which is already outstanding, and a 14x20 will probably be very close. Then you have to contend with the twice-as-large file sizes. Of course this will all be moot again in 9 months :).

DESIGN PROBLEMS
I see three basic design misses with the ND: small buffer, undisplayable RAW and the display is not easily viewed in normal daylight. I would also like to see the ISO always displayed in one of the panels.

SHUTTER LAG
I have NO shutter lag, but I have the display turned off during shooting, as suggested in the manual. And if I'm shooting consecutive frames, I wouldn't pause to look between shots anyway. Just pressing a handy button brings it up when needed.

Now the smallish buffer will hamstring getting continuous shots especially in RAW or TIFF. This is one aspect where not reading the fine print between the lines would get you. But for anything other than fast action photography, I don't see a problem. If you do need to shoot quick sequences on the spot, switching to JPEG2 may be a very viable option if not planning on 16x20 prints, just to get the shots.

The fact this was not labeled RTS D was for a reason
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.

POWER
The power seems reasonable to me once you get a decent charger (now THAT was a stupid product selection blunder - save $15 on a $6500 product and lose $$$$$$ in marketing image). And I have two spare 1800 mAH sets (no additional holders at the time). With the original batteries, I got 140 shots in 40 degree weather, and they're still being set in.

AUTOFOCUS
Again this seems reasonable given the type of lens being used, as someone mentioned in a previous post. And the focus management controls are excellent to me.

ISO RATINGS
The few shots I've taken at 200 look fine for 200 to me - I have no compunctions about using it except for critical work. The 400 gets less latitude and noticeable noise, clearly the bleeding edge. I'd use it only if I really had to.

CUSTOM SETTINGS
New technology is about options. You need to try the various tone curves, chroma and edge settings. Shoot tests where you photograph a highly-textured medium toned subject in bright light, put the ND on manual and shoot + and - 1 ev steps from -5 through +5 of metered. Look at what happens in each transition. This is your film - get to know it. But this isn't new in concept, just in execution, and the fact that you don't need to slave for two-three hours in the darkroom to see the results. I do believe we've become spoiled
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.

CUSTOMER MANAGEMENT
Generally speaking, this has never been a strong point for Contax
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(with exceptions, of course). The stuff sells itsef (used to anyway
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), and they felt complacent. Time to wake up ...

THE REST
To these comments, I need to add the remainder - the excellent build quality, the fact that for me the ergonomics of this body are almost perfect- better than the Nikon or EOS, but this is highly subjective - control placement, how it feels and handles which is very important to me. I like the two instant switchable modes.

And my two lenses, 24-85 and 70-300, work beautifully with it. I'm drooling for that 85/1.4 Marc keeps rubbing in our face - at some point after I recoop my wallet.

Right now I'm ecstatic that I can get noticeably nicer pictures than with my old RTS III, with less than one hundredth the hassle, and totally enjoy the process. If I don't think about the price, of course. On the other hand, I paid $6500, less $1150 makes it $5350. The EOS-1D goes for $5500 at B&H, and they're taking orders for the 1Ds at $8000. I feel pretty good right about now. Hope you all manage to do likewise.

A Happy Thanksgiving to All,

DJ
 
Martin,
Thanks for the info on the up coming Kodak and Cannon. Given the drawbacks of the ND, have you asked them about battery consumptions?
I couldn't agree more with you on pairing up. I wish Fuji or Kodak would make a body that could take Zeiss lenses, just like they did with Nikon.(Sony is using Zeiss lenses for some of their cameras.) I have done lots of comparison shots with Zeiss and Nikor lenses, for me there is no comparison, especially in the coloration, tonality, distortions, details and depth. Nikon may make a couple of nice lenses, such as the 14mm f2.8, but generally, still does not compare with Zeiss. Nikon images are generally harder and colder while Zeiss are warmer and contains more detail in the shadows.
Regarding the Hasselblad H1, B&H Photos in NY has color photos and spec for it. However, all lenses are being made by Fuji. My understanding is that no Zeiss lenses will be available.
 
Dana,

Thru your posts , I have noticed an ironic tone on your comments. From them I can only infer that you are a "Computer & Technology Agnostic" person. Which is okay, even though it is the 21st Century.

For me in particular, after 20+ years of experience in photography and having owned and shooted every single reflex camera Leica has ever made with the exception of the Leicaflex(R3, R3Mot, R4, R4s, R5, R6, R6.2, R7& R8), Leica Rangefinders (M3,M4,M6&M7), Hasselblad (500 C/M, 203FE & 205FCC), Mamiya (RB6x7,645)& Contax 645, I can only tell you that most of the times ,I bought the new technology just by trusting the brand name without having had the opportunity of trying out the actual product beforehand.

Every single time, the brands have lived up to their reputations with the exception of the Contax ND.

In response to your post regarding the mirror lock-up, I did not know the camera did not have that feature. Normally, digital products enable mirror lock-up as a function accesible thru the software in the LCD Panel.I guess you are right about trying to find out beforehand, but Contax did such a horrible job on marketing that there was no way of finding out (try to look for yourself on any official Contax website or literature).

By way of comparison, it is like buying a Mercedes and finding out that it does not come with power lock, electric windows or the latest advances in noise reduction or fuel economy. But how would you know that..... if you talk about Chevys???

Every person in this forum, knows what a professional SLR is and what to expect from a reputable company (except you, apparently). That means that, to use an analogy, everybody here is used to buying Mercedes-Benz as opposed to Chevys (Vega or otherwise).

Everybody here is also used to price drops, but even though my IBM thinkpad T23 has dropped in price substantially after only 1 year, I still use it every day (satisfactorily I may add), and most important, when it was released, it worked flawlessly out of the box and still does.

What no consumer in its right mind would tolerate is paying top dollar for a non-performing product from a top company.

BTW, it is not a question of money, whoever wants top technology & professional equipment will have to pay the price, and from what I read here, everybody has other pieces of equipment as expensive or more expensive than the contax ND.

PLEASE do not confuse professional equipment with expensive SLR'S .... (a common mistake) Being expensive does not mean it is the best, but the very best is always out of reach for the general public.

To James Cheng,

Battery consuption on the Canon Eos 1DS is around 600 shots per charge at full resolution. Here is a link to a recent review:

www.dpreview/articles/canoneos1ds

Battery consuption on the Kodak DCS Pro 14n is similar to Canon's except Kodak's equipped with a Lithium Battery.There is substantial information on this product at Kodak's web site.
 
DJ, I agree that the ND can (hopefully/eventually) produce better images than the Canon 1D...but the comparison is apples to oranges. The 1D is at least twice as fast as the ND in every aspect in a much more rugged and sealed body. And the images are pretty darn good using L glass and stablized lenses. Clearly, it's designed for action and photojournalism needs. Its' sister camera, the 1Ds may be $8,000 at launch, but that'll come down a little after the dust settles ( but not 35 to 50 % in 6 months). To use your line of reasoning, wouldn't you pay an additional $1,500 over the ND for a camera with 2X the full frame resolution you now have, and the fasted AF in the world, in a body you can even use in the rain, with a buffer that allows you keep shooting, with a quick change battery system you need not worry about, along with software that actually works?

As far as ergonomics is concerned, one has to take into consideration the additional digital controls as well as the traditional analog ones. Here the Nikon D1x leads by a wide margin, even over the Canons and certainly over the ND. The only other digital camera that was/is faster and easier to use is the Canon D30-60, which a child could use.

In the software/firmware department, Kodak kills the competition at every turn. Their lightening fast RAW reader and image controls are leaps ahead of all of them. Every camera thay have made can be updated, and the new 14 meg camera can even upgrade the hardware from 256megs of memory to 512megs! With that memory upgrade, the camera captures 18 images to the buffer!

That all said, I am changing my perspective of the ND to that of a casual art oriented digital camera rather than one I can rely on for any kind of business use. I originally got it for weddings to be a companion to My Contax 645 with a Kodak 645C DCS ProBack. The plan was to use one set of lenses via a Nam-1 adapter and reduce lens load. At 6 meg full frame, it also could be considered a back-up to the 645 should something go down on it. But I found that I can barely do a portrait session with the ND let alone wedding work. Just when I get the client to the keeper stage, the camera goes down as the buffer loads.

Until Irakely helps me set the NDs settings, and we test it, the jury is out as to this cameras ability to render skin tones. Every "people" shot I've seen (in person and on line) has been flat and grayish in the skin tones, which is totally unacceptable for any camera including a $200 P&S, let alone a $7,000 Contax.

I know other owners may consider me as "bashing the ND. But if I can get it to at least render a standard notion of what flesh really looks like correctly, and get some faster 24X CF cards to aid the buffer a little, I'll be the first one to admit it here on this forum. I've already stated that B&W images can be quite amazing and that they display the Zeiss qualities we all got this camera to use. If I can't, I'll just use it to capture B&W images exclusively, which IMO it does better than my D1x. I may be mad, but I ain't giving up on this puppy.
 
Marc,

I think we're pretty much in tune, except our situations and requirements are different. I completely understand your position as a professional, and would feel pretty much the same in your shoes.

The Canon, Nikon, and Kodak bodies are obviously oriented toward your professional situation, and it's a real shame Contax missed that boat first time around, when they clearly could have with a little more development in a couple of areas. And some proper marketing would have helped too. I think they got so caught up in the full-frame CCD thing they dropped the ball in those areas. Fortunately for me they are not as key as having the great Zeiss glass, not to diminish the best of Nikon & Canon, which are no slouches.

The software, which is atrocious, will no doubt be improved. I recently saw a series of Dilbert cartoons that dealt with user interfaces designed by engineers - right on target. And I'm hoping they come up with a buffer enhancement program like Nikon did (didn't they read about that?). Let's hope they face up and try to get back the good graces of their faithful. They can use some good publicity right about now
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I'll be shooting skin tones this week-end, and will compare notes with your results.

One interesting factor that will be coming up in the future is at what point, or if, the sensor technology will start pushing the boundaries of the glass resolution.

Happy Thanksgiving,

DJ
 
How about an open letter that we send to contax offices all over the world. at least they should upgrade the camera or give us full credit toward the next one. for me, if they upgrade the buffer 1) by a lot more 2) fix the battery problem so i don't carry external on my waist 3) upgrade the software (both firmware & raw developer) i will be happy. I think we will see a reaction from contax about the seriousness of the problems if send the same latter to all contax president/ceo/director all over the world and also a copy the journals. though i have found ways to use the camera, it has very limited use for me. it can never be a d1x or even a d60. yet it cost 2 to three times as much. if you all are interested, we can start to collaborate on the letter content. LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD. happy thanksgiving
 
> Although I don't have the N-Digital, I think you have a very worthy and fair plan there. (Speaking about Mehrdad Sadat's message). Since the Contax/Zeiss community is rather small, and since we would like to be considered more when Contax makes decisions about what to try to sell to us, I think you have hit upon a very diplomatic and fair way to let them know our collective thoughts. It sounds like it can be handled in a friendly manner. Why not? Maybe this could be a benefit to both sides, since they will be selling what we want to buy and we will be more likely to part with our money for the products. -Lynn
 
Marc and I played with our toys in his studio today. After a couple of minor setbecks (I am sure Marc will be very specific about those
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) everything eventually went fine, and boy... you should see the pictures taken with 4/120 APO-Makro-Planar and NAM-1 adapter... We compared images taken with ND and 16MP Kodak DCS Pro Back and concluded that Contax delivers, at least at ISO 25. Well, at ISO 100 it is not that bad either.
 
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