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Fill flash on Aria with TLA 20

Wojo - Thanks for the suggestion. I have done some experimenting and hopefully I can post the result soon (film in the post).

I did try what you suggested and the shutter speed does change when the exposure compensation is dialed in. However, my (confused) understanding is this only happens if you use the AE Lock. If you have a flash fitted and powered up and DON'T use the AE Lock, then the compensation dial only effects the flash output.

Watch this space.
 
Results...

The pictures I took didn't tell me the whole story so I did some further tests by setting up the camera and flash pointing at my flash meter. The following are my observations of what the Aria does in it's various exposure modes with the flash on and charged and with and without the AE Lock.

**Aperture Priority (Av) mode. Without AE Lock:
Aperture remains as set.
Shutter speed is set to either 1/60 or 1/125 depending on which is nearer to the shutter speed required for a correct ambient exposure.
Compensation dial adjusts flash output and ambient exposure (by changing shutter speed) but ambient exposure can only be changed within the shutter speed range allowed (1/60 to 1/125).

Note: If the ambient light is too great for the aperture set (e.g. if the ambient exposure was, say, 1/250 at f/8, then when the camera sets the
shutter to 1/125 over exposure would occur), an 'arrow up' symbol is shown indicating over exposure and a smaller aperture should be selected. But also note that the compensation dial effects this so, if say, -2 stops compensation is selected, the over exposure symbol will light two stops before actual over exposure occurs.

**Shutter Priority (Tv) mode. Without AE Lock:
Aperture remains as set (which doesn't make sense as the aperture selected in Tv mode is always the smallest available).
Shutter remains as set up to 1/125. If a shutter speed above 1/125 is selected, 1/125 is used.
Compensation dial adjusts flash output only.

Note: This mode is effectively the same as Manual mode as both the shutter and aperture remain as set.

**Program (P) mode. Without AE Lock:
Aperture automatically set to f/8 (with ISO 400) or above.
Shutter speed set to either 1/60 or 1/125.
Compensation dial adjusts aperture but flash output remains the same.

**Aperture Priority (Av) mode OR Shutter Priority (Tv) mode. With AE Lock:
Aperture remains as set.
Shutter set to give correct ambient exposure when AE Lock engaged up to max of 1/125. (Up arrow flashes if over exposure will occur).
Compensation dial adjusts both shutter speed and flash output (so ajusts both the ambient and flash exposures).

Note: If the AE Lock is used, the camera behaves exactly the same regardless of which of these modes is selected.

**Program (P) mode. With AE Lock:
Aperture automatically set to f/8 (with ISO 400) or above.
Shutter set to give correct ambient exposure when AE Lock engaged.
Compensation dial adjusts aperture but flash output remains the same. If + compensation is applied and aperture reaches maximum, shutter speed will decrease.


**Manual (M) mode. (AE Lock has no effect)
Aperture and shutter remain as set.
Compensation effects ambient and flash exposure.

Conclusions:

*None of the above are ideal for fill-flash.

*When the AE Lock is not used, if the ambient exposure calls for a shutter speed other than 1/60 or 1/125, then the ambient exposure will be changed when the flash is on and fully charged. There is no way, once the flash is on and fully charged, of checking the ambient exposure though there is an indication if over exposure is going to occur.

*With no AE Lock, in Av and Tv modes, the compensation dial ONLY effects the flash output and not the ambient exposure. In P mode, both ambient and flash exposures are effected.

*When the AE Lock is used, both the ambient and flash exposure is changed by the compensation dial in all modes.

*The only auto modes where the ratio of flash to ambient exposures can be altered is Av and Tv when no AE Lock is used.

*Manual mode is the only mode where a controlled fill flash can be achieved while also retaining ambient metering, though you have to remember that the compensation is effecting the ambient meter readings as well.

*And finally, if I want to use fill flash, I should use my EOS 30 instead... :)
 
Peter,
Thanks for your post! If I am reading it correctly it sounds like you could use shutter priority to do fill flash in some situations...i.e. where 1/125 or slower and minimum aperture would give correct expsoure. Is this right? It would be limiting though. I really wanted to buy a TLA20 or 30 due to price and size considerations, but I may think about the TLA 360 instead, just for ease of fill flash.
Thanks again for your research on this.
Susan
 
Dear Peter: while I do not have an Aria I do have a TLA 20 and I am very interested in this thread. Thanks for all of your effort in conducting these tests. Can you clarify the following statements as they appear contradictory:

"With no AE Lock, in Av and Tv modes, the compensation dial ONLY effects the flash output and not the ambient exposure."

*Manual mode is the only mode where a controlled fill flash can be achieved while also retaining ambient metering, though you have to remember that the compensation is effecting the ambient meter readings as well.

Thanks, David
 
Susan,

Yes, I think you're right, but, as you say, this would be very limiting. You could open up the aperture but you have no idea of whether the ambient exposure is going to be correct.

I think my results need to be put to practical test as I suspect things may not be as bad as it seems. In David's previous posting he says he is getting good results with his 159 and I suspect, in practice, it may well be the same with the Aria. I intend to do some practical tests as soon as the sun starts shining (which, here in the UK, may be some time off).

I don't know very much about the TLA 360 except it's much more expensive than a TLA 20 or 30. I think it has compensation built in and, if so, this would seem a better way to go. But whether it's worth the extra money...

I would recommend the TLA 20 in every other way. I know it may not seem very powerful but, unless you are using lenses with small maximum apertures and/or only use slow films, it is quite capable of handling most situations. See this picture taken at a night time parade and you'll hopefully see what I mean. The way the flash has illuminated buildings on the far side of the street would suggest a much more powerful flash, but this was the TLA 20.

159800.jpg


I also find the TLA 20 isn't too big or heavy. If you still haven't got to see one (from your other thread), here's a picture of one on the top of my 139.

159799.jpg


Peter
 
David,

I think the contradiction you're referring to is that, maybe, the first
paragraph would suggest that a controlled fill flash could be achieved
in Av and Tv modes while the second says it can only be done in Manual
mode.

I would not be happy using Av or Tv modes as you do not get any
indication of the ambient metering and, once the flash is on and
charged, the shutter speed will get set to 1/60 or 1/125 which may well
cause ambient under exposure, but you would never know unless you have
taken note of the shutter speed prior to the flash being turned on. This
basically means, yes you could use Av or Tv modes as long as you first
meter with the flash off and set a suitable aperture and/or shutter
speed - but this is no better than Manual mode.

In Manual mode you get a meter display so you can constantly monitor the
ambient exposure (subject to remembering the meter reading is effected
by the compensation set) so, when the shutter speed gets set for flash
sync. you can, if necessary change the aperture to ensure a correct
ambient exposure. I think this is the only mode where you can really be
sure of what you are going to get.

Hope that makes sense. Also see my reply to Susan as well though.

Peter
 
Thanks Peter - that is what I meant and your answer is clear! Thanks again for all the time you have invested in figuring this out for the rest of us.

David
 
Thanks, Peter, especially for the pictures! The TLA 20 did a nice job.
Regards,
Susan
 
Peter,
thank you for clearing that up! It just turned out as I thought it would.
BTW, I also own a TLA 20 that I use quite often and with very good results. It is quite cheap, not bulky, takes AA rechargable batteries and works absolutely reliable.
Thanks again,
Marc
 
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