Kyocera is not a charity that exists so that I can enjoy my hobby. They dumped loads of money into this business, why should they give something away. Lots and lots of old and out-dated technology is still proprietary. Did Canon say - hey, anyone can continue building FD system - it's free now?
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Have Zeiss lost the plot again
- Thread starter grumpoid
- Start date
Hi, I had assumed that Kyocera thought they could sell the Contax 'rights' back to Zeiss, but clearly Zeiss do not want to pay the price asked (my assumption), so they prefer to flush ZF M42 money away instead. More than a little odd in my book. I do wonder if there is some sort of dispute between Zeiss & Kyocera which is not easy to solve, rather than just a price that is too high? ...maybe some legal wrangle? Which leaves Kyocera 'stuck' with the C/Y mount that they presumably do not want to do anything with and Zeiss cannot use it either until the contract expires, by which time C/Y will be dead anyway from a marketing viewpoint. Zeiss seem to be backing themselves into a tight corner. Surely it would make better business sense to make FD or OM fit new Z lenses rather than M42? There seems to be some obstacle to EOS mount lenses, but what? it does not stop Tamron, Sigma and others making EOS lenses. Zeiss state they see the new Z lenses being used by DSLR users, so EOS would be crucial to satisfy that market, suggesting EOS users buy M42 ZS lenses to use with EOS/M42 adaptors is just barmy it seems to me. I am toying with the idea of an FM2n or F6 with ZF lenses though....
John:
I need to be humble - I do not know anything, these are just my speculations. But if you ask my opinion, then:
First of all there are three various mounts that Kyocera produced - C/Y, N-mount, Contax 645. But since this thread is about 35mm MF lenses, I contain my comments to this.
a) Kyocera does not want to do anything with the C/Y mount. It's a finished business. If they did, they would have arranged a more stately exit (cf today's Konica Minolta announcement re pulling out of camera business and Sony takeover)
b) I do not think anyone wants to buy the C/Y mount. It would not make sense. Market obviously thinks that the future of small format camera business is digital and very automatic everything. Epson rangefinder and Leica digital back are obvious exceptions, but are niche and very much legacy products. Noone would design a manual focus digital camera from scratch.
c) Only Zeiss could possibly, feasibly, ever want the C/Y mount (to sell new lenses to the shrinking number of users of old Contax gear - it's a kind of cottage business, but still). But they opted to gor for the more "universal" M42. For whatever reason.
Patrick:
I think some (most) of the lenses designs were determined by what Zeiss already had available (see identical (or near identical) optical designs for instance in their Rollei 35 mm range). I could imagine that some designs were requested by Kyocera. But it seems that optical designs always remained the property of Zeiss. This is what I think, only.
I need to be humble - I do not know anything, these are just my speculations. But if you ask my opinion, then:
First of all there are three various mounts that Kyocera produced - C/Y, N-mount, Contax 645. But since this thread is about 35mm MF lenses, I contain my comments to this.
a) Kyocera does not want to do anything with the C/Y mount. It's a finished business. If they did, they would have arranged a more stately exit (cf today's Konica Minolta announcement re pulling out of camera business and Sony takeover)
b) I do not think anyone wants to buy the C/Y mount. It would not make sense. Market obviously thinks that the future of small format camera business is digital and very automatic everything. Epson rangefinder and Leica digital back are obvious exceptions, but are niche and very much legacy products. Noone would design a manual focus digital camera from scratch.
c) Only Zeiss could possibly, feasibly, ever want the C/Y mount (to sell new lenses to the shrinking number of users of old Contax gear - it's a kind of cottage business, but still). But they opted to gor for the more "universal" M42. For whatever reason.
Patrick:
I think some (most) of the lenses designs were determined by what Zeiss already had available (see identical (or near identical) optical designs for instance in their Rollei 35 mm range). I could imagine that some designs were requested by Kyocera. But it seems that optical designs always remained the property of Zeiss. This is what I think, only.
"No one would design a manual focus digital camera
from scratch."
The Leica Digital M is the exception. Rangefinder cameras are the exception to the "I'd rather have AF" rule. Even though I prefer AF for my SLRs and DSLRs, I want my rangefinders to be manual focus and always will. The possibility of a Zeiss Icon M mount digital Rangefinder is a real possibility. Just depends if Epson follows up with an RD-2 or if Leica makes it to market in time. The one who finds the technology to produce a full frame, 10+ sensor for a rangefinder with a M based mount will take all the marbles. IMO, it will steal some business from DSLR sales with people like me and many others fed up with the size of DSLR systems, and being forced lug around a bag that feels like it's filled with bricks.
from scratch."
The Leica Digital M is the exception. Rangefinder cameras are the exception to the "I'd rather have AF" rule. Even though I prefer AF for my SLRs and DSLRs, I want my rangefinders to be manual focus and always will. The possibility of a Zeiss Icon M mount digital Rangefinder is a real possibility. Just depends if Epson follows up with an RD-2 or if Leica makes it to market in time. The one who finds the technology to produce a full frame, 10+ sensor for a rangefinder with a M based mount will take all the marbles. IMO, it will steal some business from DSLR sales with people like me and many others fed up with the size of DSLR systems, and being forced lug around a bag that feels like it's filled with bricks.
jsmisc
Well-Known Member
Didzis,
Yes, I agree that one would think that only Zeiss could want the CZ mount but to add to the confusion there is the Braun CZ SLR around which was referred to on the Zeiss web site. I saw one for sale in Teneriffe about 5 years ago. I wonder how they got a licence to build it and apparently now as a new model. Perhaps Cosina might like the rights?
Yes, I agree that one would think that only Zeiss could want the CZ mount but to add to the confusion there is the Braun CZ SLR around which was referred to on the Zeiss web site. I saw one for sale in Teneriffe about 5 years ago. I wonder how they got a licence to build it and apparently now as a new model. Perhaps Cosina might like the rights?
biggles3
Well-Known Member
Hi John,
I use the Olympus E-system and have the C/Y adapter. I've promised to put up some piccies taken with the E1 and CZ lenses - I'll get round to it soon. I love the E system - can't vouch for the consumer models but the E-1 is a gem and some of the lenses are breathtaking. Great flash units too. If you're pondering the E system, try the E-500 - it's not made to the pro spec of the E-1 but has had good reviews. Best news is the replacement for the E-1 is soon to debut (no news on specs yet) and I'll bet with the quality of the top Olympus lenses and the ability to use all CZ lenses (though the 85 1.2 won't stop down), this will be quite a treat. Being able to use the Contax swing and tilt bellows and the PC Shift lens on an E-1 - magic!
Cheers,
Graham
I use the Olympus E-system and have the C/Y adapter. I've promised to put up some piccies taken with the E1 and CZ lenses - I'll get round to it soon. I love the E system - can't vouch for the consumer models but the E-1 is a gem and some of the lenses are breathtaking. Great flash units too. If you're pondering the E system, try the E-500 - it's not made to the pro spec of the E-1 but has had good reviews. Best news is the replacement for the E-1 is soon to debut (no news on specs yet) and I'll bet with the quality of the top Olympus lenses and the ability to use all CZ lenses (though the 85 1.2 won't stop down), this will be quite a treat. Being able to use the Contax swing and tilt bellows and the PC Shift lens on an E-1 - magic!
Cheers,
Graham