What's new
DPR Forum

Welcome to the Friendly Aisles!
DPRF is a spin-off of dpreview. We are a photography forum with people from all over the world freely sharing their knowledge and love of photography. Everybody is welcome, from beginners to the experienced professional. From smartphone to Medium Format.

DPRF is a community for everybody, every brand and every sensor format. Digital and film.
Enjoy this modern, easy to use software. Look also at our Reviews & Gallery!

The Bertele 5cm F2 Picture Thread

Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
L1025808.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.7
  • 1/125 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160

L1025820.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/60 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 640


L1025821.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/3.4
  • 1/180 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 640

L1025834.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.8
  • 1/60 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160

L1025812.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.8
  • 1/45 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160


Remember the Kodak ad for "Open me First" on Christmas?
For me, it was the Prototype Skyllaney 5cm F2 Bertele, a lens that I've ben connected with since the first announcement. This lens is a tribute to Ludwig Bertele, inventor of the Sonnar formula lens. It is also a tribute to Chris at Skyllaney for making his dream a reality, especially over the complexities of the last three years.
Mine arrived just in time for Christmas, and has mostly been on my Leica M9 ever since. If the Bertele was not on it, another Sonnar was. I really need to shoot it on the M Monochrom.
This new lens is based on the classic 1934 version of the Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 Sonnar, which featured mechanical and optical improvements compared to the earlier 1932 version. Finding an original 5cm F2 Sonnar in good condition is very difficult, the front element is very soft- same type glass as a Leica Summar. My 1934 CZJ 5cm F2 Sonnar is near perfect, and is the second Contax mount lens that I converted to Leica mount ~15 years ago.
 
If you know me from other forums, you know I visit the Marine Museum often, and typically test lenses there. The subjects stay still and the lighting is constant. In nice weather, walk around back for the many monuments.
L1025856.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/4.8
  • 1/1000 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160


I took the Bertele and my 1934 CZJ 5cm F2 Sonnar up this day, a chance to test the two lenses.

The new lens is multi-coated, higher contrast compared with the uncoated lens. "That's going to be obvious". It has all the personality of the Sonnar it's based on, in a mount that has the mechanical precision of scientific grade optical equipment.

L1025858.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/45 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160

Above, at F2

Beow- F2 and F4 Pairs.
L1025859.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/60 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1025860.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/60 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1025861.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/250 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1025862.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/4
  • 1/90 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
 
For Comparison- these are with the 1934 SOnnar 5cm F2 that I converted to Leica mount,
Wide-Open.
The Bloom on this lens, and many older uncoated optics, acts as a lens coating. "Bloom" is a benefit of age on glass, and is the effect that lens designers sought to recreate with lens coatings.
L1025905.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (III)
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.8
  • 1/45 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1025907.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (III)
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/45 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1025909.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (III)
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/90 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
 
Low-Light, all wide-open. Close-focus on the prototype lens is ~0.8m, the same as my converted 1934 lens. Production lenses will be 0.7m.

All wide open.

The first picture- the Marine calculating the Mortar Trajectory is using the Graphical Firing Table that I donated.
L1025881.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.8
  • 1/30 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500


L1025882.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.8
  • 1/45 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500


L1025885.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/90 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500


L1025886.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/180 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500


L1025892.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/500 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500


L1025901.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4
  • 75.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/30 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 2500
 
The walk around back-

First at F2,

L1025946.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Leica Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (III)
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2.4
  • 1/1500 sec
  • Center-Weighted Average
  • Manual exposure
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160



These are all at F4.

L1026556.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/250 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026581.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/1500 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026585.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/250 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026601.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/750 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026609.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/180 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026611.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/250 sec
  • ISO 160


The lens stops down to F22, as does the original.
Like the original, there is focus shift due to spherical aberration towards infinity. I just nudge the focus slightly.
When I retire, not too much longer than now- I'm going to make a Jupiter-3 that compensates automatically for focus shift. It's not hard, just need to do it.
 
Spring has Sprung.

L1026809.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/750 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026830.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/2000 sec
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1026840.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/2000 sec
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1026852.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/2000 sec
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160
L1026855.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/4000 sec
  • 0.3
  • ISO 160


Wide-Open, close-up. This lens uses an Index-Cam that maintains exact focus throughout the range.
When I convert Sonnars using Jupiter mounts, the focus uses a straight 1:1 movement. I have to pick a set point for exact focus, and sometimes alter the focal length of the lens to get good agreement. I've converted about 70 Sonnars to Leica mount, and adjusted almost 300 Jupiter lenses for Leica. Now that Skyllaney is in business, I refer people there.
 
I am so ready for Spring and Summer.

L1026782.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/2000 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026783.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/2000 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026785.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/1000 sec
  • ISO 160
L1026794.jpg
  • Leica Camera AG - M9 Digital Camera
  • Unknown
  • 50.0 mm
  • 1/3000 sec
  • ISO 160
 
RIMG0129.jpg
  • RICOH - CX5
  • RICOH ZOOM LENS
  • 5.4 mm
  • ƒ/3.7
  • 1/60 sec
  • ISO 200


Above- The original Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 Sonnar, Bertele Sonnar on the M9, and my 1934 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F2 converted to Leica Mount.

Below- The pre-production Bertele with a Pre-production 1932 Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, about 100 made before changing the design.


RIMG0137.jpg
  • RICOH - CX5
  • RICOH ZOOM LENS
  • 6.0 mm
  • ƒ/4
  • 1/42 sec
  • ISO 200

You can see that the aperture index of my lens points at the viewfinder, and does not line-up with the focus index. The pre-production lenses were optimized for ~F2.4, as was the pre-production 5cm F1.5. I had my Bertele 2 days before taking it apart and adjusting for wide-open use. Added bonus, aperture lines up with viewfinder, meaning you can see it in the corner. The production lenses will be optimized for F2, wide-open use. The 5cm F1.5: I left it as built. Not going to change this one. It is important to note that Bertele optimized the original Sonnar in the pre-production batch for ~F2. Subsequent revised Sonnars were optimized for wide-open use. Someone else must have taken their lens apart and changed it. I normally optimize for wide-open use with my converted lenses.

I guess this puts me in the serious collector realm. But- I do shoot with all of these.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top