User comments btil June 2003

[john]

Hi Jamey,

M7 or MP? I guess it should depend on the kind of photos you like to shoot. If you prefer to shoot architecture or landscape you have got a lot of time to take your photo. In this case you should choose MP. On the other hand if you want to shoot people and action, you should be quick, in that case you should choose M7. M7 or MP? It is not a matter of taste.

Best wishes Jochen

 

[jamey]

Craig,
After reading your posting I jetted to the local camera store and spent some time with both bodies. I found the SS dial of the MP to actually be more comfortable in my smaller hands. I also hope to get to the instinctive place you describe with light. It might be less practical in certain ways, but I'm leaning towards the MP, even it creates a few more misses that would've been hits. I think I really want the leica for the process it necessitates, for exactly what you describe. (That, and of course the lenses). All off these ramblings have been tremendously helpful in clarifying the issues and in reminding me as to why I even want it. Thank you.

 

[Craig24]

Jamey

I think sometimes the photographic community has forgotten that film exp. isn't rocket science, particularly with neg materials.

The reason the M3 is my favourate camera is that it is bare bones stuff. But you've got all you need in one little package. The old KISS phylosophy. When I traded my Canon's for the M3 I was forced to be more observant. I soon learned, against all my instincts, that you don't have to meter for every exposure made. I was surprised that the number of good exposures was similar to those made with the AE SLRs. I could also work faster and concentrate on the subject. The TTL metering is just another tool with which to draw on, when needed. Its made me a better photographer, but that's for others to judge.

I started lugging an anlologue thirty deg. (Gossen ProfiSix) around with me, even without a camera. When a cloud came over, for ex&le, I just watched the fluctuations of the needle. All I can say is the technique has worked well for me and once you have got a feel for it, its a bit like riding a bike. However, you ride the biker better if you do it regularly.

I should add that this approach is not set in stone by me, it is just one handy technique that the Leica's allow, and has broadened my working abilities. Its a bit like the old boy scout thing "be prepared". I've learned not to panic when the battery goes dead, there are other options. The storey of Ansel Adams and his "Moon Rise over Hernadez" shoot, a little bit of knowldege and good powers of observation.

sorry for this extended ramble, I'm just passionate about photography.


good luck craig

PS If asked directly I'd say go for the MP, but then again I'm buying the M7.

 

[derekstanton]

Even with the M7's aperture priority capability, there's still no reason you can't use the M7 like you would an MP. It does have all the same manual control. The issue with the 'battery dependency' is rather ridiculous. You can carry film, but no spare battery? How often, really, would you have to carry a battery? Certainly not in the first half of its lifecycle, anyway. There are lots of folks out there using all mechanical cameras, because they're afraid of battery dependency, but they're metering with handheld meters powered by batteries.... "Purists," they call themselves. Whatever. A great image is never (rationally) judged by the equipment used to capture it. In fact, not only would those purists have to ascertain that I was using an M7, but also whether or not it was set to Auto or Manual mode. If either one of those factors contributed to a photo's value, then the person 'rating' the image has zero credibility.

That said, I only wish they had an M7 in the same body style as the MP. The matte chrome is just gorgeous.

 

[jamey]

Craig,
I read your post, and immediately stuck my light meter into my bag. It's a good idea, to look at light not just in terms of aesthetics but in terms of readings without the pressure of an exposure that's waiting to be made.

Why did you chose the M7? Is this a second body to add to an all manual one?

And Derek, I agree with you about the battery issue. I haven't even considered it. as a factor.

 

[david40]

> I agree with Jamie. How is it that any decent images were made with the M3 at all? "Metering is not rocket science." It just needs patience. I know someone who treasures an M7 not because he doesn't need to worry about metering, but because he reckons the elctronic shutter is more reliable (I think the difference is relative). He uses a separate Sekonic 308b meter.

It really depends whether you want to bother about thinking about light at all -- in which case you can set a basic setting, then fine-tune it; or whether you want to let the camera do everything. Respectfully, if you want to emulate the original Leica approach, the former is probably the best idea, though not the easiest.

If you like the feel of the MP, and chose that camera, I seriously doubt your pictures would be inferior. It looks like a beautifully crafted camera in the spirit of the M3, but the M7 is undoubtedly a fantastic tool too. Incidentally, I have no idea why people with "small hands" say they favour the MP. I have big hands yet find no prblem at all operating a P/S or my original Olympus 35RC rangefinder camera.

 

[Craig24]

In response to Derek, the issue of battery dependancy is not so ridiculous when it's snowing like mad and the wind chill makes it 40 bellow freazing. Its hard enough to hold the camera let alone hold the wee little batteries that go into Leicas. But yes in general I agree with Derek's sentiment batteries are simply not the issue it is often made out to be. The special demands of winter wilderness photography is just not encountered by more sensible photographers.

Jamey

The electronic shutter of the M7 has some advantages for commercial work including AE, its quieter at slow speeds (good for live theatre performance work) and more accurate than mechanical at high SS. HSS fill flash capabilities. etc.

Will I take the M7 camera on my bush walking (tr&ing, hiking, rambling, Trempen)trips hell no! This said Derek is dead right you can still use an M7 like and M3 M4 M6 or MP. The AE is there if you need it. There is no rule that says you have to use it. For me personally over the last 20 years I have not missed the lack of AE. Auto-go-magic can become a bit of an addiction, rather than another tool in the kit bag.

I think it was Dirk, who in an earlier post, somewhere described AE and manual systems in terms of Ap. priority and SS priority. Sorry if I've miss quoted the auther, but the post is in here somewhere.

The M7 gives me some of the advantages of an SLR bit still keeps the excellent vision of the Leica M system. I will also get a MP down the track, but its a matter of work priorities at the moment.

Enjoying this thread of rambles- funcitionality for image making that is what its all about, no?

craig

 

[jamey]

David- It's so subjective but for me the slight difference in size between the MP and M6/7 just made a tiny difference in handling. Plus the friend I was (M6 user) with found the MP SS dial to be a little harder to turn. For me it was perfect. Such a tiny point but with Leica I guess it's okay revel in details anyway.

Craig- I do see the advantages of the M7 as important, but that darn MP seems to have some kind of weird hold on me... Do you agree that the cloth shutter can be off as much as half a stop? And how much of a difference is the noise of the shutter?

 

[Craig24]

jamey

Go with your heart!! It's like going to the RSPCA pound, you don't choose the puppy it chooses you. One can mull over the details of the respective Ms. The designs are so finely crafted down to the last detail. They are all good, it's impossible to make a mistake. To paraphrase Apple the most powerful camera is the one you want to use. My other camera's (all Leicas) are back ups for 'Oskar B' my forty year old M3, just plain 'Oskar' was my original DS M3. I anticipate the MP will take over as my main camera. I guess it will have to be called "Oskar B'nack". Sad, I know that one who earns a living from photography has a name for his camera. But I think you get my point.

I've used mechanical cameras for over twenty years now and had no exp. problems. It is only likely to be an issue at 1000th sec. To use a West Coast US ex&le, if I were Ansel Adams I would stress about the 1/2 stop. Edward Weston's imagery to me is more exciting and 1/2 a stop never enterred his consiousness. The MPs shutter is said to be an improved more efficient design. I haven't noticed any problems with my M3 even with slide film, so too with my newly acquired R6, I recently shot neg and slide in tandom over a wide range of subject matter and lighting conditions, using 1000 sec a lot. The results are perfectly consistent, from the M3, R4s (electronic) and R6. BTW I've had the R4s for 15 years and never needed to use AE yet, but its nice to know its there.

Only played with M7 in shop. Noise of the M7 shutter compared with mechanical M6 is same above 50th sec. That sweet click sound. At slow SS it is minimal and not significant in all but a few specialised situations. In theatre work the mechanical gears at slow shutter speeds is quite audible in quiet scenes. But we are splitting hairs here. Most other theatre photographers here use Nikons, so I'm well above the pack with the Ms in this type of work anyway.

craig

 

[jamey]

Craig, thank you for the encouragement. I am going to go with the MP. I appreciate your time.