Will we ever see a digital body for our Manual Focus lenses

[gunteach]

Hello all,

I've been watching this thread and others latetly with interest. I normally get a lot out of the discussions here, some of it goes right over my head, some of it seems a bit frivolous at times, but for the most part, the comments posted are useful.

Every so often though, someone posts something that makes me stop and think about what I am doing with my photography, and what direction I wish to proceed in, and it changes things. Such a post was offered by Marc Williams when he wrote:

"What is the burning need to substitute silicone for celluloid? From what I can tell it isn't a commercial need, which I could understand. So, I wonder why?"

Prior to reading this post from him, and thinking about it for a bit to digest it, I had been hot on the trail of a what I hoped would be the next big thing for me, a DSLR. I had been shopping hard, worrying about lens compatibility with my Zeiss stuff, camera build quality, rapid obsolesence, and thinking about how much I would need for the "digital darkroom" to get a finished product from all of this new technology which I am sure is great. I also thought about the 35 years or so I have spent trying to learn how to produce a pleasing image on film and turn it into a print that I am proud to display, and the time and energy needed to learn the "new way" of doing things at nearly 50 years old.

After Marc's cogent question, I asked myself, "Why?". I looked at my stash of Contax 35mm cameras (almost a dozen bodies, some of which are sure to outlast me), and what I think is a good selection of Zeiss MF lenses that if treated with care should last me until I'm not active enough anymore to shoot photos. I also thought about how much I enjoy the solid feel of my gear which I just don't get from the DSLR's in my price range that I have handled so far. I looked at a full-size freezer full of 35mm and 120 film and fresh Ilford photo paper of every description, all bought at ten cents on the dollar from a camera shop owner who proclaimed with certainty, "film is dead" and sold me his entire stock. Finally, I thought about the quiet enjoyment I get from my time in the darkroom, away from the ringing phone and other distractions, the process of multiple attempts to get a print that looks and feels "just right" to me, even the smell of the chemicals that takes me back to my first darkroom experiences as a teenager. I reflected on the pride I feel in the rare instance that I produce something I am really proud of, worth mounting and hanging on a wall, with the knowledge that I, not a computer program produced that image from start to finish.

I then thought about the image quality issues available with digital, the ability to switch ISO in mid-shoot, shooting black and white and color simultaneously, etc. etc. and was able to find a workaround with my existing equipment (multiple bodies, scanning, etc.) for everything except the image quality point. For that, I dusted off my seldom-used medium format gear, nothing fancy, just a couple of Yashica and Mamiya twin-lens cameras, loaded them up with some of my discount roll film and went out and took some pictures, as opposed to sitting around here thinking about new gear. As Marc suggested, I had them processed at the local "serious" lab, who scanned them for me at the time of development for what I thought was a very reasonable price, giving me both negatives for posterity, and some really detailed digital files as well. The quality, even from my $75.00 Yashica TLR met or exceeded anything I have seen so far from consumer grade DSLR's, and of course, blew 35mm away.

So what is the bottom line of this very long post, at least for me? Well, I am sure I will go out and get a consumer grade DSLR at some point to go with my current little Olympus digicam, which I find quite useful for snapshots and work photos, just for convenience and speed. I'll probably shoot a ton of digital images of my new baby when he comes along, but you know, I may just keep a film camera around at all times for that so that I have him captured on film and digital scans for posterity. I don't mean to take anything away from those of us who have "gone digital", because I know there is a great deal of skill involved in producing a good product in that process as well. I've now come to think of it as just a different medium. Some of us choose to work with paints, others with charcoals, some do both. It's all art, and for me, a hobby. The digital route for me will be for work-related matters or snapshots I think.

But, thanks to Marc redirecting my thinking, I've stopped obsessing over the digital camera thing and am back to making time to actually shoot pictures again. Of course, he may have inadvertantly created a monster in that this week, I actually placed a low bid on a clean looking 4x5 press camera which I may get just to try out a really big negative. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks Marc!

 

[markvedel]

Hi all

I would first like to say that I find this tread to be very interesting. Many of the postings have given me valuable information.

Concerning the resurrection of the Contax brand, I think that one must first look at the economy of supplying a DSLR system. When auto focus, image stabilization and digital capture became important factors for the customer’s choice of camera, the Contax line (i.e. the C/Y and N1 mount) was no longer profitable.

There are three main factors influencing the marketplace: 1) High development costs of new DSLR camera bodies, 2) The commercial life span of each camera body is short, because its sensor partly determines the image quality. New camera bodies with better sensors makes the previous models more profoundly obsolete than in the pre digital days. 3) The strong competition between the manufactures drives the margins down.

These three factors high development costs, short product life cycles and low margins means, that only suppliers with high volumes stay profitable. The winners out compete the suppliers with less volume until the market stabilizes with one or a few suppliers. We have seen nearly all other brands close shop until there are only the three main suppliers left: Cannon, Nikon and Sony.

In this market place, I do not think that there is room for a niche player with a low volume turnover.

Imagine that the Contax line was resurrected using the N mount. A full lineup of fast auto focus lenses and a camera body with a full frame 16 MP sensor was offered. We would all rush and buy. When Cannon later issues a camera body with e.g. a full frame (or oversize) 86 MP sensor with 64 bit color rendition, many of us would dump the Contax and rush to buy the Cannon. The potential suppliers know this and are therefore reluctant to embark on this business venture.

I believe, that when the sensor market becomes mature, meaning that the prices of sensors are stable and that new sensors do not produce significantly better images, then there could possibly be room for the resurrection of the Contax brand, as an independent high quality low volume offering. And this only if the maturing of the sensor market means that the development costs are lowered and the product life cycle longer.

In the current market there is only room for Carl Zeiss lenses in a hybrid offering together with an other system line (Nikon & Sony). In that way one could see the Carl Zeiss lens offerings for Nikon and Sony as a sort of a resurrection of Contax (Carl Zeiss) in the 35mm marketplace.


Marc Williams: I really appreciate you comments in this forum. They are always spot on and a pleasure to read. I very mush like the photographs that you have posted and on your web site. I could only aspire to take pictures like that.

I have some questions that I hope you (and others) can find time to answer:

1) Focusing with Contax 645: I have the Contax 645 with the 45, 80, 120, 140 and 210mm lenses. I find it difficult to focus accurately using manual focus, when I take hand held portraits of my children. Many of the pictures are slightly of focus. The focus plane is either just in front of or just behind the closest eye, that I normally try to focus on. I have the standard prism and focusing screen that came with the Contax 645 kit. I had no problem focusing with my Contax Aria and the 100mm/F2 lens. Is that also your experience? How do you get spot on focusing using the Contax 645? Should I get the waist level finder, the Contax magnifier for the N and 645 cameras or the focusing screen with the horizontal spilt image? How do you experience focusing with the Contax 645 compared to other medium format systems: Hasselblad, etc.

I have read on an other forum some talk of film flatness problems. One person described how he had taken several successive pictures of the same object where some of the pictures ware in focus while others where not. Have you experienced any film flatness or focusing screen alignment problems.


Flash photography. I have read on an other tread that you switched from the Contax TLA360 flash to a SUNPAK Auto Pro120J with a bulb diffuser. I have just purchased a SUNPAK 120J flash and an interface module yc-1d for Contax on ebay. I am waiting for them to be delivered. I have never had much luck with flash photography. On my pictures the light always seems a little flat. How do you use the flash. Do you have one flash on top of the camera or do you use more than one flash with reflectors etc. Where can one get the bulb diffuser. I have not been able to find it. I assume that it is something different from the cone shaped reflector that comes with the flash.


Medium format digital solution: I cannot yet afford the current medium format digital backs, but hope to be able to in the future. Which medium format digital setup would you recommend: Getting a digital back for either the Contax 645 or for the Hasselblad V mount or getting a Hasselblad H series. Which digital back do you use / would you recommend. Which camera body would you recommend for the digital back Contax 645, Hasselblad V or other Manufacture. Which Hasselblad body do you use / recommend.

I have been exited over the increased quality of the 6x4.5mm format over the 35mm, and would like explore going further in this direction with larger sizes. Which 6x6, 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9 can you recommend and in which situations are they superior to the Contax 645 system that I already have.

I am thinking of getting a large format (4x5) camera mainly for landscape photography. Which system would you recommend.

Regards
Mark

 

[fotografz]

Whew, lots of questions Mark ... hope I can help a little.

MF is more critical to focus and hold steady than 35mm. The depth of field of 80/2 on the C645 is very narrow when shooting close.

Manually focusing wide angles in lower light is beyond me personally. A flip magnifier is essential gear on most manual MF cameras IMO. I have one for every camera except the Hasselblad H body ... and I didn't use one on the C645 because it has focus confirmation in the viewfinder like the Contax RX.

Shooting moving kids is an exercise in anticipation. Focus where they are going to be not where they are. Or stop down and use Hyper Focal Distance focusing.

When using flash learn to drag the shutter when in lower light. The flash will freeze the action but more open apertures and slower shutter speeds will open up the backgrounds. With the 120J get the light modifiers available for Quantum. I always diffuse the light from any flash.

For a digital back try to find a Kodak Proback 645C. Totally portable, and still a great performer.

 

[wang]

Zeiss did help their customers to understand her present situation with the Contax brand.

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/858dbbbbd2fb78a6c125711800592377

She said,"however, there is still a contract between Carl Zeiss and Kyocera governing the exclusive use of the CONTAX brand by Kyocera. Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments."

What she said is nothing new to us. However, with the present situation of the various behaviors of the other camera manufacturers, it is reasonable to predict that there will be a resurrection of the Contax brand in a few years time. By that time, there will be no manufacturers providing Zeiss-based 645/36x48 autofocus systems. The situation will be the same for 24x36 that there will be no system using autofocus Zeiss lenses.

Kyocera terminated the production of Contax because of her reluctance in the investment of the digital systems. One must know this investment was enormous in the year 2005. However, this situation will change, say in the year 2009, that digital bodies for both 645 and N system will not be expensive any more.