Digital v Film again

[coyot]

>Dirk,

I would really be interested in knowing how many people really tried the ND and then returned the camera. You claim that "many" people did ... but I would really be curious to know how many people really did put money down, bought the camera, tried it, and then returned it ...

Anybody want to give there name up as somebody who "returned the ND after purchase". Just curious. Are we talking about 3 people or 300?

Michael.

 

[dirk]

... good question. I only know that some people told me via e-mail that they would return it, but of course I can not check wheter they really did. It is a high one-digit number I know of by private e-mails.

Since many people do not bother to inform me about their private affairs, I assume that there is a higher "black number" out there

 

[djg]

Pauk said,

"if you want to compare the pictures than 1. you've got to make a print out of an ND.made picture : o.k. the printer will be important for the quality 2. you've got to scan the slide of the XA : o.k. than the scanner will be important for the quality"

This would not be a fair comparison. Current scanning technology is far superior to current printing technology. You can make a scan that would show the XA's grain, loosing virtually no resolution, and with 48-bit color, no perceivable loss of tonality, assuming a decent exposure.

Printing an original ND image in order to then scan it makes no sense, as you are obviating the fact that the ND image originally is in the digital domain.

A much fairer comparison would be, make a custom print from an XA original slide or neg, and print an ND full-size 3008 x 2008 image through a calibrated high-quality printer, preferably dye sub, both the same size but at least 16x20.

DJ

 

[melissaphoto]

And now you get my 2 cents so you are rich.......
I also suscribe monthly although none of you know me.
I have a G2 and a 645. I subscribe so I can find out more about my passion and I am finding I know more than I thought. Like many of you, the messages get forwarded to my inbox. It is now getting full with BS. Testosterone has taken over my email. We all know the ND can use some improvements just as we all know we will have a new one soon. We will have a new Nikon, Canon, Kodak, etc....CHILLLLLLL!
I am on the verge of cancelling this message board because I am only reading arguments and not learning.
Nobody cares who is right or wrong any more. QUIT FILLING MY EMAIL UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. DONT YOU PEOPLE HAVE JOBS THAT YOU KEEP BRAGGING ABOUT? Quit reading past posts to improve your arguments and start practicing in photoshop to secure your future. This is not a contest, its an informational board and I thnk it is ironic I read a post from Dirk asking for money on the same day I am thinking of cancelling. Please remember there are many CONTAX devotees who read but never respond, and they are the ones who can make or break.
So , with all due respect, please keep talking and please shut up.
Love,
Melissa

 

[writing4me]

I am going off-list for a while and will not reading any of list messages. If anyone wants to get in contact, you're still welcome to email me as ever at lynn at turnkeydesign dot net If I have neglected to respond to anyone's direct questions sent privately, I do apologize and hope to get a reply out in a day or two via email if you provided your address. -Lynn

 

[fotografz]

Sorry Melissa and Lynn, I personally tried to take any response to Clive off forum to no avail. I believe you are in the right, and this thread has become a waste of electrons.

Back to basics.

For those interested in seeing ex&les of digital verses film (which this thread is suppose to be about), there was a "Street Shootout" done between Leica M users and Leica owners that also shoot digital cameras (mostly P&Ss). Contax was well represented with many excellent shots taken with a TVSD.
Results can be seen at photo.net...the Leica discussion forum.

 

[clive_kenyon]

Positively my last post on this subject.

I apologise to those who are offended by my comments, but nobody makes you read them. You can always hit the delete button.

I do not aplogise for trawling up old messages. When someone assumes the role of expert I would expect their opinons to hold from one month to another. When they contradict in such a vivid way then I feel obliged to challenge the credibilty of their opinons.

In February 2003 I made the statement that 'Any 35mm compact would give a better photographic image than any current digital camera'. I should have qualified that by saying 'any current 35mm equivalent digital camera'.

I never claimed that my XA was better than your ND. The XA was only mentioned because I had some good photographs from it to hand.

I did not set out to rubbish the ND. All the comments about the ND came from an ND user.

The single solitary issue of image quality became clouded with people feeling threatened about their judgement in buying an expensive digital camera.

All I ask is for anyone who feels unsure about whether digital is for them please put a conventional photograph, one produced in the old fashioned chemical way, against a digital print - either home printed or comercially, BEFORE investing in a digital camera.

If anyone wishes to pursue this thread privately or wants to send me some digital prints they can contact me on <anything>@nicepix.org.uk


Clive

 

[principe]

> In February 2003 I made the statement that 'Any 35mm compact would > give a better photographic image than any current digital camera'. I > should have qualified that by saying 'any current 35mm equivalent > digital camera'.

This is complete rubbish. An ex&le of blind ignorance and arrogance at its best. honestly, i do not want to bash you, but this statement is incorrect

And by the way : i considered the ND and did find it not suited to my needs. However i do know Irakly's work and his expertise

(Privet kstati, kak dela ?)

And combined with my 7+ years of experience in digital photography i guess i can claim your post to be void.

I know, that i am not an often guest here ... So before you ask "who is he to blow against the wind", here :

http://www.fotocommunity.de/pc/pc/mypics/10494

Cheers

Veniamin Kostitsin

 

[fotografz]

For crying out loud Clive, can't you take a hint?
NO ONE wants to hear about it anymore.

Right, wrong or indifferent, you have your opinion and others have theirs.

You're completely free to stick with what you know and believe, but please allow others to explore new alternatives no matter how disorganized and imperfect the process may be. It's a world where there are no experts, only passionate experimentors that (sometimes) learn from their failures.

Peace man.

 

[rcnet]

Hello Forum

Like another member, I to look for the many "on the job" contributions of the digital experience from the more experienced = forum members. The added technical details allow "us" amateurs to get a glimpse of the underlying technologies at hand and the = product placement that the different manufacturers use to "sell" their product thru = their lens choices chip choices and various "camera" variables of...price versus = design...allowing a different mix of use features and components.=20

I also appreciate the non "on the job" contributions from everyday use = of the digital photography medium.

The latest "language" issues reflect directly on the user. There is no = question that=20 philosophies of style and technique interfere with plain old = evaluations thru each individuals digital experience.

All digital experiences qualify for this forum, at least that is my = take on the webmaster's invitations to participate.

As to the recent spate of non constructive contributions they just = became tests of intellect. for an argument...not a discussion.

Like the Springer show...testy behavior has an audience and... I = myself had a few chuckles at the un-conforming substances of some e-mails. I did not feel = compelled to yell...type... Dirrrrk....Dirrrrk....Dirrrk, to egg on the continuance of the debate.

My 2 cents says...webmaster has the right to end overly "personalized" = submissions...and if they continue ...block the contributer/s...the fine line of censorship...is = a difficult job based on an idiot term netiquette(sp). There is no way to sterilize a forum...and = hope that it keeps it's "interesting" contributions. At the same time, those who feel = compelled to send "do good" e-mails also, "plug" the pipeline of free flow of ideas and experiences that = inform, educate, and entertain the many forum members. Of All. ..I'm sure... are members desire to = come away after investing time at the site or reading the mail... better off for doing so.

So...Dirk...you might ask for submissions from the members on "rules = of engagement" that allows vibrant discussions that from time to time, "clash & clog" the = forum...but have a means / mechanism ...to agree... to disagree... and move on.

Best Regards,

Ralph