What's new
DPR Forum

Welcome to the Friendly Aisles!
DPRF is a spin-off of dpreview. We are a photography forum with people from all over the world freely sharing their knowledge and love of photography. Everybody is welcome, from beginners to the experienced professional. From smartphone to Medium Format.

DPRF is a community for everybody, every brand and every sensor format. Digital and film.
Enjoy this modern, easy to use software. Look also at our Reviews & Gallery!

Contax is giving up on the N digital?

> So, marketing excuses about lens > mounts and digital suitability is bunkum (to use the scientific term).

Well, Rico, your bunkum is, well, bumkum. Microlenses are used on Interline sensors, which are the type of sensors used in the little P&S digicams, and digital video cameras. They give inferior image quality to, what are called "full frame" sensors (not the same meaning as covers the entire 35mm frame size, BTW, it's just the name for the "type" of sensor cell architecture, as opposed to Interline) such as the type of sensor used in the N-Digital, D-30/D-60 etc. 35mm-esque digital cameras.

Austin
 
Hi Austin,

I'm confused by your statment below:

"35mm cameras typically do not use leaf shutters, they use focal plane shutters. Focal plane shutters, at above the flash sync speed, use a slit (as do the Hasselblad cameras that use an FP shutter, which is why they only work up to the flash sync speed). This does not work with full frame digital sensors, as the entire sensor needs to be exposed at once."

I own 4 SLR type cameras Nikon F100, Nikon FM3 Canon Rebeland Olympus OM10 and also the Contax 645. Of all those cameras only one has a focal plane shutter, that being the Olympus OM10. My understanding is that almost all cameras manufactured after the mid 1980's was of a leave type.

I'm probably wrong but would appreciate you helping clear this up for me.

Tnx,
Kerry
 
> Hi Austin, > > I'm confused by your statment below: > > "35mm cameras typically do not use leaf shutters, they use focal plane > shutters. Focal plane shutters, at above the flash sync speed, use a > slit (as do the Hasselblad cameras that use an FP shutter, which is > why they only work up to the flash sync speed). This does not work > with full frame digital sensors, as the entire sensor needs to be > exposed at once." > > I own 4 SLR type cameras Nikon F100, Nikon FM3 Canon Rebeland Olympus > OM10 and also the Contax 645. Of all those cameras only one has a > focal plane shutter, that being the Olympus OM10. My understanding is > that almost all cameras manufactured after the mid 1980's was of a > leave type. > > I'm probably wrong but would appreciate you helping clear this up for > me. > > Tnx, > Kerry

Hi Kerry,

All the cameras you mention use a focal plane shutter, not a leaf shutter. Leaf shutters (also called central shutters) are in the lense (like the Hasselblad CF series lenses, or better yet, a view camera lense), and look just like aperture blades...but a focal plane shutter is, well, at the focal plane...as in, right in front of the film.

Did that clear it up at all?

Regards,

Austin
 
I have to side with Austin on this one
happy.gif
. SLRs use FP shutters predominantly because leaf shutters have a really hard time going faster than 1/500 sec. Look at all the large format lenses, which use leaf shutters, and they even cheat by having a fastest speed of 1/400 for the most part.

The mechanics of opening and closing the 5 or 6 "leaves" of the iris shaped contraption which are overlapping and rubbing together gets to be too much. Too bad because you can synch at the highest speeds with the leaf shutter.

DJ
 
Thanks....Yes, that clears it up for me... I was misunderstanding the termanology used.

:)
Kerry
 
>=20 >=20 >=20 > [One of the solution is using Canon 1Ds or 1D with adaptor for MM or ME > lenses. I tried the old German made 85/1.2 and 100/2 on my EOS1Ds using A= V > metering and result is excellent. One exact setting, the CZ delivered mu= ch > saturized picture than EF lenses so I need to adjust the camera often or = need > to rely on the RAW file so I can adjust the results later to have 2 sets = of > lens to have more matched result. Not a surprise, the reason to use CZ i= s for > obvious better image quality. ] >=20 >=20 >=20
 
I agree with Marc - Contax need a Pro level digital body, not necessarily more functions than the ND but faster speed at turn-on and focusing, and solid weather sealing. Add lower noise at higher ISO, a big-ass battery, the RTS III's flash metering with a 10-12MP full-size sensor and I'll sell my first-born :D. Oh, I almost forgot, RAW images displayable on camera, please!

Meantime, I luv my ND, warts and all. My big beef with Contax: NO REBATE ON THE 85/1.4!!
sad.gif


DJ
 
I have been slowly building up my N and 645 lenses hoping one day I will be able to use them on a better N digital. If contax decided not to develop DSLR, I would be really upset and disappointed. My other option is to dump my N system to finance a Kodak digital back for my C645.
 
>=20 >=20 >=20 > [I think what Kyocera really needs to do, without much more investment, i= s to > update its raw data developer and remote shooting capability that both Ni= kon > and Canon is so much easier to use and much more powerful. Let along the > remote shooting, I recently use the Photoshop Raw plug-in for the RAW dat= a > from Canon 1Ds and it is like moving from typewriter to computer, the > Photoshop RAW plug-in is much more advance, and the slider shows the adju= sted > effect instantly and convert to TIFF much faster than original Canon soft= ware > and I hope Contax can quickly support the Photoshop. Otherwise, the ND i= s > still a top rank digital platform and deliver excellent quality, not as h= igh > resolution as 1Ds but for portrait work the skin tone is still visible > superior than Canon and for scenery the lens quality and sharpness at the= edge > of the picture still outperform Canon.] >=20 >=20 >=20
 
"Dirk, Pro level SLRs have always been the "Marketing" flagship that sets the reputation of most any camera maker. You say the N1 has mirror lock-up...could someone tell me how to do that? Super fast isn't the point about AF, it's sensitivity. Focusing in the darker conditions that others have no problem with. And it is more than 5% of Contax users if you consider all who left Contax for lack of it."

Hi Marc,

I agree with you. There is definitely a need for a pro N model. I just wanted to express my view that the N1 has already so many feature, so that I personally do not miss that much anymore. It is a lot better then its reputation.

regarding the MLU it is combined with the 2 second selftimer. Not a perfect solution, but a good compromise. You turn on the seftimer on 2 seconds. You press the shutter, the mirror goes first up and after 2 seconds the image will be taken. I do not understand why Contax does not state that feature in the broschures. But marketing seemed never their strenght.

Back to the ND: I do not know whether the ND has the same MLU available. In the past, this feature was only avalable at the pro models of Contax (RTSI-III and the S2 via selftimer). So maybe Contax does not want some pros to prefer a cheaper amateur model
happy.gif


I too think that there will be new digital models. Kyocera can not "delete" the N-line, this would mean no credibility anymore and no sales in the future - no matter which lens mount. Even Leica did not do this after the desaster with the R8 and they have a lot less money then Kyocera.

So the "name of the game" is IMHO attacking aggressively with new models, better price calculations (in expectation of the upcoming models of the competition) and better features (especially software and battery).

The problem at Kyocera IMHO is that only engineers are designing the cameras and features, but marketing with experience in photography is not existing. So the engineers think to know what a Contax photographer wants to have, but in reality they do not know it at all.

Otherwise they would have offered already a non-fullsize digital camera with C/Y mount, there would have been new lens design for this mount too (the N-lenses could be offered also for the C/Y mount) and there would have been also already many more FFL N-lenses on the market.

I know that Zeiss can design in a very short time every lens you want to have, as long as Kyocera is willing to order and pay for it. Some designs are already in the office desk for a long time, but Kyocera seems to hesitate.

But IMHO this will change, since there is no choice for Kyocera anymore. The mistakes in the past 5 years are presented in the sale figures of today. They have to go new ways to survive and make money.

Either they accept this and the wishes of its custumers (just read the postings in this forum) and they will be able to survive in the camera industry or the brandname Contax will die within the next 2 years.

IMHO Kyocera did the same mistake as many other companies in other industries: They wanted to have the profit first and after that they might be willing to invest in these products. But reality is not this way. At the stockmarket there is a very simple rule: You can not have the performance of a stock/share without bying/investing in it beforehand
happy.gif


P.S: I will open a new thread for general Contax-Digital discussions and copy this into it, so this ND thread can stay on the topic ND
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top