Fuji GFX Medium Format - Why I am so disappointed

[dirk]

Do you want to use the camera, or make love to it???...

both.... :z04_kaputtlachen:

...Don't get me wrong, a sexy looking camera is great to have. It's definitely low on the totem poll compared to functionality though.

...

there we differ in our opinion. Looking at all the efforts of various brands at Photokina, it is remarkable how many different models differ more on design than on specs. Of course they cut here and there some features to make it look differently. But the marketing broshures and images at Photokina show clearly the product "camera" not only as a tool, but more and more and more as "fun".

But this is nothing special and normal in all other industries. THe more the image quality of cameras reach the "good enough" level of the mainstream photographer, the more the battles are in the design and marketing departments Good for us...

Dirk, thanks for getting this conversation started. It certainly takes tough skin to do so. ...

Thanks. We are a community forum. The purpose is to discus things and exchange ideas/opinions. As long as it is according to the netiquette and nobody starts a brand war, there is no problem to have totally different opinions in one thread.

...
On another note where are the specific camera facts, sensor,FPS, metering, ISO and the reports from hundreds about shooting, shutter noise touching and everything that goes along with being able to put a new camera through the paces during its initial release?

Please bear in mind that the Fuji GFX is still in development. They might even change still some specs until spring 2017.

 

[David Schneider]

If this Fuji had anX-Trans sensor it would probably render better files than any MFD under 100 mp. (That's based solely on my experience with the Fuji XE1/XE2/XPro2 and Canon 5Dmk3 and Hasselblad H3Dii-39.). But it seems the GFX has a Bayer sensor. While nothing I' ve read in the Fuji press release or reviews definitively say the sensor is not an X-Trans sensor, I think if it was Fuji would be putting that out in everything they could. One of the things that make the X series so great is that X-Trans sensor and to not have it in the GFX is more disappointing than any design faults the author of the article finds.

 

[dirk]

They said in the press conference that it is not an XTrans sensor....

 

[douglasf13]

I really don't see this as being much different than comparing the Sony RX1 to something like the X-T1 (outside of the fixed lens.) The Fuji gains a tilt screen and dials, but is a little bulkier. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shared their RX1 tech with Hasselblad. It was quite an achievement to get the RX1 so thin. Sony had to develop special sensor mounts, heat sinks and electronics to make the RX1 so thin, and they've kept that a secret (at least potentially until this new Hasselblad arrived.)

 

[Bengt Fredén]

Hi all,
This is obviously a camera that has stirred a lot of emotions and reactions, which I find is a good thing! I have been a professional Stockholm-based advertising photographer for 25+ years, and a Hasselblad V user since 1971, so I can really appreciate the functional design factor.
To me also, this Fuji GFX 50S camera looks like it has come together bit by bit, without too much forethought and design planning. Perhaps time was too short to be able to present it worldwide at Photokina? It seems there must be room for a lot of improvements, with a $10,000 price tag.

I am also a lover of the Fuji X APS-C system (I am using the small and handy Fuji X-M1 at the moment, but seriously looking at the X-T10 or X-T2), with it's gorgeous X-Trans sensors, that gives us the widely appreciated Fuji unparalleled color rendition (especially skin tones and greenery). So, with these cameras in mind, I had also actually expected something a tad smarter (without in fact having seen or held it in my hands). A traditional Bayer array sensor also gives me the impression that this is yet not fully developed. This is where Fuji have excelled in the APS-C line of cameras.

Medium format - to me, that somehow starts at least with the 645 format (41,5 x 55mm in Hasselblad V's film magazines). However, this 51 Mpxl Fuji sensor format is somewhere between that and the full frame DSLRs from Nikon, Canon or SONY, just not big enough. And it's more or less the same with the new compact mirrorless Hasselblad X1, the 50c sensor is also too small, at least for a camera which entails that kind of investment in new premium glass (Fujinon).

I still use and love my Hasselblad cameras, where functionality and lens quality comes first. I use them in both the analog and digital realm, with superb results. Always with matte box lens shades (bellows). There are gorgeous Carl Zeiss T*-multicoated lenses from 24mm up to 1000mm, plus very useful and premium-quality extenders (1,4x and 2x) from Zeiss and Fujinon. I also use the FlexBody camera, which gives me the same kind of technical movements (tilt and shift) as my larger 5x7" and 8x10" cameras. It works extremely well for digital, too, I have experimented some with the (equally small!) CFV-50c digital back (CMOS sensor), but not yet with the CFV-50 (with a slightly larger Bayer sensor) or with 60 Mpxl backs.

I am now looking at digital backs with a larger sensor than the CFV-50c, primarily PhaseOne 60 Mpxl or 80/ 100 Mpxl. There are also the smart digital backs from (Mamiya-) Leaf, the 60R and 80R, where the sensor can ROTATE for upright portrait shots, while the camera is still mounted to the tripod. And these sensors can really use all the potential and quality of the fantastic Zeiss wide angle lenses, for example the Carl Zeiss Distagon CFE 4/40mm IF (inner focusing and close focus correction).

In my mind, there is still LOTS to be done in the digital medium format world, before we can have something as enormously versatile as the Fuji APS-C or the Nikon FX cameras. In recent years, there has also been an explosion of various kinds of lens adaptors (I have them all for my Fuji X-M1), and one would like to see that for the digital medium format cameras, too. How can the manufacturers believe that will will invest in YET ANOTHER complete (and exclusive/ premium) lens system? That is probably why sales have been slow with the Phase One XF 100 Mpxl system camera, the Schneider central leaf shutter lenses are just too expensive. The camera itself, though, is a dream (very functional design, too), I have briefly tried it.

In any case, it will be interesting to try out the Fuji GFX when it arrives in Europe some time in the early summer of 2017! And, hopefully, this will be just a start in a completely new product segment for the creative technical talents at Fujifilm - they have listened to photographer's feedback with the APS-C X system cameras in the past, which have benefitted in recent product development (Fuji X-T2) and I am very confident that we haven't seen the end of medium format cameras from Fujifilm just yet...


All the best from Stockholm, Sweden,
Bengt Fredén, photographer

 

[douglasf13]

I really don't see this as being much different than comparing the Sony RX1 to something like the X-T1 (outside of the fixed lens.) The Fuji gains a tilt screen and dials, but is a little bulkier. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony shared their RX1 tech with Hasselblad. It was quite an achievement to get the RX1 so thin. Sony had to develop special sensor mounts, heat sinks and electronics to make the RX1 so thin, and they've kept that a secret (at least potentially until this new Hasselblad arrived.)

To add to my post above, now I see why there is a big hump at the back of the camera. It holds a big battery, which may be a worthy trade off:

(edit: I'm apparently not able to post pics here yet.)

 

[dirk]

To add to my post above, now I see why there is a big hump at the back of the camera. It holds a big battery, which may be a worthy trade off:

Are you sure about that? I do think if that would be true, they would have mentioned that in the press conference as a selling point. But as far as I can remember, they did not say anything about it.

...

(edit: I'm apparently not able to post pics here yet.)

This is because of Spam protection in the forum software. Only after a couple of postings users are allowed to post links or upload images. The number it shows you is not the correct one

I will upload some images here:

• Canon - Canon PowerShot G9 X
• 10.2-30.6 mm
• 10.2 mm
• ƒ/2.8
• 1/125 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• ISO 125

• Canon - Canon PowerShot G9 X
• 10.2-30.6 mm
• 22.8 mm
• ƒ/4.5
• 1/125 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• ISO 400

• Canon - Canon PowerShot G9 X
• 10.2-30.6 mm
• 17.6 mm
• ƒ/4
• 1/125 sec
• Pattern
• Auto exposure
• ISO 250

 

[dirk]

What I find strange is that on all official Fuji rproduct photos, there is not a single one whioch shows the GFX from an angle where you can see really well that part of the back. It seems almosta s if they try to hide the "ugly" part of the body...

Also in the boxes at the booth (se above), they were placed in a way so that you can not look from the top on the top plate of the camera. The only photo I have found is the one in the first posting in this thread.

 

[DeusExMamiya]

The lenses will be good, I have no doubts about that, but this camera seems truly aimed at landscape shooters and we already have a similarly priced and specced option from Pentax, though admittedly this is a much smaller body.

I think the Pentax 645Z is a great camera body, but the body size isn't the main problem with Pentax: it's the gaps in the lens range.

The much shorter flange distance of this Fuji allows us to bypass that problem, with no restrictions on adaptable lenses.

 

[dirk]

Here is a video of Matt Granger about the X1D. I think on this video you can see really well the size or rather lack if size of the X1D and its lenses.

Maybe this helps to understand why I expected something similar from Fuji instead of the GFX:

https://www.camera-info.com/threads/matt-granger-video-on-x1d-50c.11251/