Panasonic M4/3 watchers thread

[Tom Caldwell]

I like both Olympus and Panasonic lenses . Olympus/OMDS bodies are good but I have decided that I prefer the Panasonic body interface and I have become used to is. As I have a few bodies switching between them - often relying on finger memory is easier when their user interface is similar. The same thing could apply for multiple Olympus/OMDS bodies.

Panasonic has drastically slowed down its M4/3 camera body releases since they opted to make L-Mount gear as well.
2017 GX850/G9
2018 'GF10'/GX9
2019 G95
2020 G100
2021 GH5II
2022 GH6
2023 None so far

Not that I am in any hurry to update as since my GM1 nine years ago I have continued to use all of my Panasonic bodies - none of them are retired even though the amount of use between varies quite a lot. The G9 of late 2017 is still a great camera body and I don't feel that my work is any the worse because I have not been able to update it. I am not into video at all so the GH5II an GH6 hold no attractions for me despite being known for very sophisticated cameras. The G100 was also not on my radar as 'entry level video' until the price looked tempting and I found that it does make a very good light stills camera which was quite well hidden by the V-Log marketing hype. The G95 did not interest when I had the G9 and GX9 and the GX850 and its limited market successor the GF10 have no evf which I need these days.

All this and no new M4/3 camera body from Panasonic this year so far. If I can borrow a riff from the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" - "Speculation is useless" and "It ain't easy being in the camera industry". At the moment.

But I will allow myself the observation that Panasonic seem to have tried to offer at least one new camera body for the M4/3 mount each year.

After chatting about how the fact that the G100 is only a little smaller than the GX9 on another post I said that the G100 seems distinctly lighter so I did measure weights - in each case just the camera body alone without caps but with battery and SD card in place. A added the GM5 as a benchmark:

GM5 222 gm (has a small Franiec grip attached)
G100 346 gm
GX9 448 gm

Nothing in M4/3 can match a GM body for lightest weight. But the G100 is only about 100 gm lighter than the GX9 but in terms of the 'feel' of its mass it feels even lighter.

 

[Downunder]

I had a GX85 kit with three zooms for several years (7-14, the GX 12-35 and GX 35-100) until it was stolen last year... ratting around trying to decide what to buy I really wanted M4/3 but something small and ultimately bought an OM5 a month ago.

Can't help feeling M4/3 might be close to the end of the road though, technologically.

 

[Pete_W]

Can't help feeling M4/3 might be close to the end of the road though, technologically.

I agree.

Panasonic has a bit of road left to travel in M4/3, e.g. a PDAF-equipped camera, but they are currently riding a nice wave with their new full frame S5-II and the soon to be released S5-IIX. And there are rumours of a new S1 model coming too. So I wouldn't expect them to announce a M4/3 camera that would divert attention.

 

[Downunder]

Something that irked me was the size of Panasonics recent M4/3 bodies - they're just gross. After the sweet size of the LX3 and LX5 I had hoped Panasonic would make another compact M4/3 body, but no such luck.

I had a Pentax MX and LX in the film era - and they're smaller than the OM5 I have now.

 

[Pete_W]

Something that irked me was the size of Panasonics recent M4/3 bodies

Yes, they have grown considerably. My G95 is almost identical in size to my S5. The size of telephoto lenses is of course the big difference although I think some of the smaller M4/3 lenses (e.g. PL15, Lumix 42.5) look quite silly on a G95 or G9.

 

[Downunder]

They're stupidly huge, the LX100 shows what's possible with M4/3.

 

[pdk42]

Can't help feeling M4/3 might be close to the end of the road though, technologically.

I think m43 still has a lot of road left to run. The OM1 is now the best selling Olympus/OM camera ever and there are people switching to the format for what it, and the high end Olympus long lenses, offer. For video, the Panasonic GH6 is more than competitive with the S5ii, AF aside. Panasonic should (and probably will) release a G (m43) camera with PDAF this year and that will perhaps give them a better share of the market that the OM1 is currently hoovering up (vacuuming up for the non Brits!).

 

[AlbertM43user]

They're stupidly huge, the LX100 shows what's possible with M4/3.

While LX100 series of cameras using a Fourth Third size sensor, it is not a M43. M43 is the lens mount standard of the system. LX100 is a fixes lens camera using a FT sensor only. It is not a M43 system camera.

If you replace the LX100 lens with a M43 mount, and if the LX100 will fully ultize the entire sensor, LX100 will no longer be small as it is, nor be able to have a f/1.7 lens small as it has. LX100 can be so small is because of its tailor made lens plus the 2.2x crop factor.

The smallest M43 Panasonic should be the GM1, GM5 which has a tiny evf. For current models should be the GF10/GX880 without evf.

 

[dirk]

2017 GX850/G9
2018 'GF10'/GX9
2019 G95
2020 G100
2021 GH5II
2022 GH6
2023 None so far

We have to put this into perspective with the environment at that time.

2018: Leica, Panasonic and Sigma announced the L-Mount alliance at Photokina. I am sure, all major R&D money and ressources went into this in 2018-2020 to be able to deliver fast all lenses and cameras on this new fullframe roadmap.

2020-2022 start of Corona outside of China. Global lock down. Demand collapsed, because nobody could travel, everybody stayed at home. Delivery bottlenecks until 2023.
If Corona would not have existed, I am sure we would have seen more new models. From all brands (look at Nikon Z6/Z6II), for all formats. So, this is not a Panasonic-only problem.
This year (2023) is the first year you hear at least a better delivery situation for most brands. BUT see the problems Fuji still has with producing/delivering its X100V, X-E4 etc.

I am optimistic. Panasonic showed with its fullframe S5 Mk2, that they enter now PDAF territory. I am sure, that the next MFT cameras will have that too. It would not have made sense for Panasonic to offer a new MFT camera in 2022 without PDAF. Neither with PDAF, because the margin would be lower than with the S5 Mk2.

I expect in 2023 at least one MFT camera with PDAF.

For the lenses: There is not really something missing. They can update lens design to make it even better. But not for all lenses. The new 9/1.7 is great. So are the new 10-25/1.7 and 25-50/1.7 (too big & heavy for me).

 

[Tom Caldwell]

We have to put this into perspective with the environment at that time.

2018: Leica, Panasonic and Sigma announced the L-Mount alliance at Photokina. I am sure, all major R&D money and ressources went into this in 2018-2020 to be able to deliver fast all lenses and cameras on this new fullframe roadmap.

2020-2022 start of Corona outside of China. Global lock down. Demand collapsed, because nobody could travel, everybody stayed at home. Delivery bottlenecks until 2023.
If Corona would not have existed, I am sure we would have seen more new models. From all brands (look at Nikon Z6/Z6II), for all formats. So, this is not a Panasonic-only problem.
This year (2023) is the first year you hear at least a better delivery situation for most brands. BUT see the problems Fuji still has with producing/delivering its X100V, X-E4 etc.

I am optimistic. Panasonic showed with its fullframe S5 Mk2, that they enter now PDAF territory. I am sure, that the next MFT cameras will have that too. It would not have made sense for Panasonic to offer a new MFT camera in 2022 without PDAF. Neither with PDAF, because the margin would be lower than with the S5 Mk2.

I expect in 2023 at least one MFT camera with PDAF.

For the lenses: There is not really something missing. They can update lens design to make it even better. But not for all lenses. The new 9/1.7 is great. So are the new 10-25/1.7 and 25-50/1.7 (too big & heavy for me).

I am not worried about looking for a new camera as I have noticed that I am still willing to use all the Panasonic system bodies that I presently own. Even the GX7 will get a fly every now and then even though I have the GX85 and GX9 as well.

I was going to comment elsewhere about the fact that Panasonic has seemingly switched to lighter construction for its M4/3 gear - I don't see any lack of build quality there even if durability in the long term may or may not be as good. Time would sort that out but I am not worried - short of an accidental drop my camera gear has 'lived' longer than I ever needed to use it.

The 9/1.7 is a delightful simple, very workable light (in weight) lens - many have said that it is small - but I don't see it as particularly small myself. I also have the 25-50/1.7 and it does share the new-found lighter-weight construction that Panasonic has apparently adopted for M4/3. I presume that the sister lens 10-25/1.7 is of similar build. No issues on my part and I have even used the 25-50/1.7 on a GM5 body in a sort of David meet Goliath sort of manner.

I already have (for quite some time) that wild card for M4/3 in the form the Sigma DC 18-35/1.8 in EF mount which being an an aps-c lens focal reduces on M4/3 nicely to 13-25/1.3 or thereabouts and even this crazy lens buyer finds there is no need for a 10-25/1.7 - but the Sigma lens is larger and much heavier.

I my usual thinking out of the box manner I have wondered if Panasonic's next camera could be a GM5 update with their 25mp sensor out of the GH6 and every bit of gee-whizz expertise that could be fitted into a GM5 size camera body. It would be expensive of course and make my GM5 bodies instantly obsolete. But surely it would shout loud for M4/3 and make the whole industry take notice by making the smallest size M4/3 body into the most desirable one as well. No way would the FF manufacturers be able to creep their camera bodies down to that size.

The issue with M4/3 is its need to prove its compact size credentials but with most users sticking to the one camera body, multiple lenses, paradigm they want a camera body of conventional size and that size is about as small that a FF camera body can be made. Then the M4/3 mob bring out smaller bodies as cheap entry level systems so as not to directly challenge their premium priced flagship models. The GM series were meant to be sort of "flagships of compact" but most buyers saw them simply as cheap backup pocketable cameras and would not buy until they reduced the price - including this person who now raves about them ....

Despite the wishing the reality might be that no way is the market going to pay premium prices for ultra-small camera bodies no matter how powerful they might be. They will always be constrained by lack of user conveniences because they cannot be fitted into a body thus small. By this I mean - IBIS, full mechanical shutter, big grip, fast video, articulated lcd, huge big bright evf .... even a large battery. Why pay big money for a tiny camera body when you can get a 'full size' one for much the same money and get all the frills supplied as well?