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User comments btil June 2003

hmm.. ok guys. here's my final verdict.. drum roll...

Do note again that this verdict is based on very limited personal experiences.. with very small s&le size (just one s&le per camera model), very small and limited testing parameters.. not meant to be conclusive.. just sufficient for my own usage purposes, and just putting my observations down here for anyone who might be mildy interested. Not authorative comments, in other words.

The Contax TVS III and Yashica Tzoom are sharp, tack sharp. Maybe the Contax TVS III has the edge here. Now I usually do not scrutinise pictures overly by blowing big and with manifying lode and all, but well, you know sharpness when you see it, even if it's on a postcard sized picture. And the Contax was impressive, with the Yashica Tzoom a close second. As for the Leica c3.. now I think its images are really on the soft side. Ok, ok maybe I just don't know how to use the camera and is not doing it justice, given the positive verdicts by Amateur Photographer and all but hmm.. give any person three cameras, and two of them give excellent results without any tinkling required and regardless of whom the camera was handed to, I think i would go for one of these two idiot proof ones, thank you! This is especially bearing in mind that a compact point & shoot will be used extensively by dad and mum and sis and gf, non-photographic savy people, and whom just wants good pictures without fuss.

I am really very impressed with the picture qualities of the Contax and Yashica. Why, on the contax, the tiny light reflections off a small jade pendent, or a watch, are all recorded faithfully and in detail. True 3-d effect.
The Yashica loses out to the Contax, but still produces wonderful pictures, and for its price, zoom range and picture quality trade-off, I think it is still a great buy and definitely superior to the run-of-mill canon, pentax, nikon points and shoots out there. Especially those ultra-big zooms into the 150mm ranges with ultra-slow apertures, shudder.

The Yashica Tzoom is highly recommended. It is small and light too, easily pocketable, ya no manual controls except + or - 1.5EV (Leica C3 only has +2EV, no minus EV possible). Good for snapshots and chucking into pocket or handing over to family members and others to shoot pictures without getting worried about losing or damaging it. The lens is slow yup, f4.5-8.4, but maybe the maufacturer deliberately stopped it down for better pictures, and at any rate, it is still usable with ISO200 and 400 films, and still faster than other mega-zoom consumer zooms.

But I chose the Contax TVS III in the end. The picture quality just had that extra omph that did it for me! Plus the beautiful solid titanium body that almost turns me on by just carressing it.. and I like it that you have strap eyelets on both extreme ends of the camera, so you can hang it around the neck or by the shoulder like a SLR camera, and it feels very balanced and comfortable.

And of course, the aperture priority, allowing me to choose how sharp or blurred the background I want (usefulness subject to the limits of the lens, of course). And the large and bright viewfinder. I doubt I will use the manual focusing much, if at all. The passive autofocus works very fast and accurately.

I would hesitate to put out so much money for a digital camera (eg Contax TVS digital), where the speed of innovation and improvements is still tremendous, and new, better models and technology come out every year, if not months.

But for the Contax TVS III, a film camera, I think the technology has pretty much matured, and it is a good long-term investment for me and my family, with many solid years of usage in promise down the road.

Ok, thanks everyone for reading. Again, all opinions are entirely my personal view and subjective.

Yin Khoon
 
Looking at this thread from the out side, it seems to me that there are enough people from all over the globe getting fairly ordinary results from the C3. You've convinced me not to buy one, thanks all.

craig

PS I still think someone should put one on a tripod. But I do understand and appreciate the well articulated and valid arguments for not doing so.
 
Good information Yin Khoon. Your point on s&le size is also well taken. I have used 3 Yashicas with the 35mm/f3.5 tessar (1 T4 and 2 T5s). One of the T5s was definitely not as good as the others, and it wasn't a focus issue. Differences were distinct in bright sunlight (i.e. small aperture and large depth of field). Sometimes there are variations (or lens defects). Considering the AP review, maybe you just had a bad s&le. But based on my limited experience with the C3 as well, I think it is unexceptional.
 
Looking at this thread from the out side, it seems to me that there are enough people from all over the globe getting fairly ordinary results from the C3. You've convinced me not to buy one, thanks all.

craig

PS I still think someone should put one on a tripod. But I do understand and appreciate the well articulated and valid arguments for not doing so. > ------- (response) ------

I will be doing a test this weekend to try and resolve some of my own problems with the C3 (missed focus), but I do have a number of very sharp pics from my s&le - when focus is on. I'll post the results soon, and yes, there will be a tripod :)

As for deciding whether or not to buy one, I would like to say this: absolute sharpness is not really what point and shoot cameras are about. There are many other considerations. Since the cameras do so muc, and since we have such varied expectations of them, it is really best to try out the cameras for yourself and see what you think, how they meet your expectations. In all honesty, I think the C3 is a fantastic camera, and I love mine. It was a tad expensive, but I consider that the usual 'Leica Tax' - those red dots are costly! :)

Anyway, I'll stay shut up now until I have some data and pics to post.

- marc
 
> Yeo yin khoon: Both the Contax TVS and the Yashica have been widely praised in mags and in other forums. In a previous Amateur Photographer test the Yashica tied with Leica minilux for sharpness. TVS was not tested but it definitely looks like a beautifully made camera capable of first class results. Enjoy!
 
RE: > Yeo yin khoon: Both the Contax TVS and the >Yashica have been widely praised in mags and in >other forums. In a previous Amateur Photographer >test the Yashica tied with Leica minilux for >sharpness.

Which Yashica are you referring to? Are you saying that Amateur Photographer magazine said that the Yashica T4 Zoom tied for sharpness with the Minilux?! I find that hard to believe. The older T4/T5 MAYBE but not the T4 Zoom.
 
Graham, I agree with you that the c3 is unexceptional and not worth the price, based on both our limited experiences. Maybe it has a steep learning curve haha. But even Marc has the occasional focussing problem too (which he will test out fully soon) and Adrian also reported soft pictures when using ISO400, but which appear resolved when he uses ISO100 and 200 film. I don't profess to understanding this quirk, but overall my personal conclusion is for a P&S, the c3 may be asking a bit too much from us in order to maximise its performance!

So Crag, try out the Yashica instead, if you were considering the C3. It costs half the price of the C3, and I promise you won't be disappointed with the image qualities.

Compact film cameras are such a joy still in this digital age.. despite all the advantages of digital.

No perpetual recharging of batteries, no worries about battery life, no bringing along of battery charger on trips (or adaptor), no complicated on-camera menus to go through, no learning curve. No downloading of pictures onto computer, no image manipulation or touchup on Adobe Photoshop, no removal of red eye and optimising levels before sending for printing etc. I know you don't have to do all these all the time, but you feel bad and lazy if you know you ought to do all these to get the best images possible and you don't.

But hey, so your film camera isn't cutting edge modern technology today, you lose a lot of controls and advantages over the picture that are now possible with modern technology, but sometimes it feels nice going back to life like it once was, simple and uncomplicated and without a lot of hassles.

Just a good film camera (and a long-lasting lithium battery), and the rolls go straight to the processing shop, and out, the family is enjoying the pictures in living room together, passing them around.

Thanks for your well wishes, David. I am still feeling some twinges of guilt over spending so much on a film camera, esp when I already have a film SLR system for full photo creativity as well as a compact digital for a light p&s alternative, but well.... I console myself after all, we only live once in this world and the occasional luxuries can be forgiven! Haha...

Yin Khoon
 
David's point about 'which T zoom'? is significant - the older single focal length version was supposed to be suberb, the new 28-70 zoom has not been so well received in the UK, Practical Photography found the Zeiss lens quality only the equal of similar priced cameras (eg Minolta riva zoom 160 and Nikon Lite touch 140 ED).
In UK the Contax TVS11 is in a different price league altogether (£900)- so you'd expect this to be outstanding. Good luck Yin!!

Just to clear up my point on softness for 400 ISO film, I'm assuming that the film sharpness is letting down the lens (the lenses in the cameras we are discussing should ALL be better than the sharpness of 400 film) - so I found that going down to really fine grained films (100/200)should show the potential of the lens better than 400. I think this is important if you're doing tests - I certainly have with my C3.

However if Others have found that they are getting SHARPER results with 400 film on cameras other than the C3, then my assumption is somewhat floored - but I still reckon you should do the tests with 100/200 film.

No one has discussed colour yet...at the risk of opening up a debate, I reckon my C3 has rich and impressive colour rendition - even in low ligh (the difference with my old compacts is particularly evident in low light - perhaps a mark of good lens and optical coatings)

I must hold up my hand and say (again) that I have not compared my compact with other high end compacts, but it seems to compare well with SLRs of this price (and more).

What do others think of the colour and comparisons with SLR quality for these types of cameras?
 
>Quite correct, sorry. Yes it was the T5 (I think that's the same as the T4 Super?)
 
Basic Fuji 400 is what I used when I borrowed the C3. I often use Fuji 400 with my P&S cameras, which are faster non-zoom models. Results have always been acceptable. 400 films these days are capable of impressive results, even basic consumer varieties. As you noted Adrian, you would not expect to see significant differences between 400 and 100/200 in 4x6 prints. I understand the point about lens testing but for everyday shooting, I think you lose some versatility by being limited to 100-200 in this type of a camera. Although the C3 is relatively fast for a zoom, it is still not that fast.
 
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