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Which Contax System suits best to your needs

Dave and all, I do not understand the dilemma.

Having to choose between a N-A/F or manual Contax is not an issue. The N system cameras ARE manual focus if that is what you want them to be. Unlike Canon AF lenses, the N Zeiss lenses have a real aperture ring and the manual focus feels just like an all manual, precision kit when used that way, ( Canon lenses are sloppy feeling when switched to manual).

Plus, when an N kit is used manually, you still retain focus confirmation in the viewfinder like a RX. Frankly, the only real drawback to the N system as a manual kit right now is the lack of a few wide primes, most notably a 35/1.4. With the addition of these missing focal lengths, I can't see the value of Contax continuing to produce a separate. all manual line.

I would prefer to see resources dedicated to the development of a Pro level N mount camera. Perhaps one similar to what Leica and Nikon are currently doing: a Nikon F6 film/digital hybrid, or the same being worked on for the dual interchangeable back Leica R-8/9. If not a hybrid, then perhaps a N body with an in camera motor to assist the USM in the lenses. Last, but not least, a N digital.

What is also sorely lacking is a new flash system. The TLA360 is a antique compared to both Nikon and Canon offerings. With a new N pro body, a new flash that assists the AF would solve many problems. Both Canon and Nikon focus better in dark conditions because their flashes have a AF assist infrared light.
 
Hi Marc,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree with you 100% - and that is the source of my dilemma. I'm a part-time pro (if there is such a think :~) ) and I owned the N1. In my frustration with waiting for Contax to release everything they promised - I won't rehash how late they were on every piece - I grew tired of the delay and missing primes. As I've said in one of my posts, the AF seemed dismally slow, especially in church interior and reception halls - but, Wow!, those images! But my old Canon AE1 had a better viewfinder for focusing manually.... Being my first Contax system, I lived with it until my frustration outgrew my enamour (it took quite a while), and then I switched back to Nikon.

I am now on the other side of the fence and tired of the accurate but 'lifeless' (IMHO) photos that come from my F5s and Nikon glass. I also own a Rollei 6008i basic system, and I love that camera. But it is slow and not the best choice for candids....

So my dilemma is: How to get into a Zeiss system that is relatively expandable, will produce the quality of images I want/need, and is available now. Obviously, a Contax film/digital hybrid like the Leica R9 would be wonderful. Like many others here, I think the Zeiss glass offers a look that I find more pleasing than Leitz - unless we're talking color and then I think it is difficult to decide (but the price differential more than makes up for the debate + I shoot mostly bw).

The most serious drawback to me, as you pointed out, is the lack of fast primes in the N system. (Also my experience with the N 50 1.4 was horrible; great images but abysmally slow to af, and very stiff to manual focus. Had it repaired twice under warranty and then gave up when they (NJ) said it was fine.)

So the dilemma really boils down to a combination of the following (in no particular order): 1. I shoot available light 90% of the time, and need fast primes - both for the speed in low light and for the DOF/selective focus. 2. I want Zeiss glass, but I'm a little afraid to buy into a system that appears to be dying (the C/Y mount). 3. I'm very reluctant to buy into the N system again given my past experience and my observations of Kyocera on this board on elsewhere. (It seems every manufacturer is spending more time on developing zooms than really good primes (except for maybe Leica/Leitz) - and while high quality zooms are sometimes useful, I need primes and not zooms - and N systems missing wide angle primes is a horrible deficit in my mind. 4. Autofocus is nice and great for those candids I mentioned above, but AF is not absolutely necessary. 5. And it would be nice if this dream system could also shoot digital at some point - though I really could care less for now because the 'look' of digital is still a long way from the 'look' of bw, IMO. 6. Finally, I don't really care what the system costs (there is, of course a practical limit to that statement - I'm not independently wealthy
sad.gif
; what I mean is, that when this new system I'm about to acquire is complete enough to meet my needs, I don't want to be replacing it in a couple of years because a) the manufacturer no longer supports it (biggest concern), b) the company has gone out of business (I know: unlikely, but a possibility)

So I do have a real dilemma, Marc. I've been down the N road before and I've watched essentially no development for the last 2 years. I want to make this equipment change while I'm in my 'slow season' and I'm not wanting to wait for more manufacturer's announcements, timelines, etc.

I just paused to re-read what I've written and it strikes me that I might be talking myself into a Leica system.... Hmmm....? (There are things I don't like about Leica, but they do at least keep their line current - but, god, the $$$) If Contax would follow Leica, both their customer service and product development models, I would not be sitting here typing this; I'd be out shooting (which I'd prefer anyway)!

Anyway, thanks for the response Marc. Maybe I've filled in a few of the holes between the lines and you understand my dilemma better?

Happy Holidays! Dave
 
Hi Robert,

Thanks for your reply. To answer your question, I do need the fast glass. Not so much for low-light applications, but I use large apertures for limiting DOF and selective focus. It also helps with the filters I use for black and white.

But the CZ primes are fast enough at 1.4. I've also considered the switch to Leica, more as a response to the business of Contax rather than lens quality, but find their pricing incomprehensible at times....

But I had not considered the G series. I'll have to look at that line and give it some thought.

Thanks for your reply!

Regards,

Dave
 
David, you may have to face a compromise. Nothing out there would specifically fill all of your criteria IMO.

What lenses are you currently using with the Nikon? I found that select Nikon glass was pretty darn good... with the rest being mediocre. 18/2.8, 28/1.4 ASPH, 85/1.4, 105/2 DC & 135/DC and the amazing 85/2.8 PC Macro. As you know, these older designs still offer an aperture ring and fairly nice manual focus control. However, I've never been all that fond of how Nikon glass renders B&W.

My solution was to switch to Canon for my pro work. Mainly to get full frame digital. But the EOS 1V film camera without the HS motor is a nice size and allows entry to some of the best SLR primes available... (but, as with Nikon, the rest are mediocre). 14/2.8L, 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 85/1.2L, 135/2L are stellar performers to the point that Leica was field stripping them to see how the hell they did it. The 50/1.4 produces better bokeh that the N 50/1.4 IMO.

What you give up is that tactile MF experience. Plus, Canon wide zooms can't hold a candle to Zeiss Ns, but the primes are a different story... especially when used for B&W work.

The Contax G series never cut it for me. I tried 3 different times, but never could get it to work for me. To slow (even f/2 is to slow for me). Went back to Leica M and ultra fast glass.

A last thought (one I've been considering myself) is to bite the bullet and get an RX then search out a few of the legendary German made Zeiss primes. 35/1.4, 55/1.2, 85/1.2, 135/2, and for a zoom the stellar 70-200/3.5. All these lenses are as rare as hens teeth and priced as such. But as pure a Zeiss experience as I've ever had (although I have to admit that a few of the Canon L primes like the 85/1.2 and 135/2 approach that experience).

Just a few additional notions based on actual user experiences.
 
"compromise. Nothing out there would specifically fill all of your criteria."

Marc, Best statement to date.

I would think if hi-quality fast lens is so important, one would jump the gun and get into the Leica. What else is the option?

I can see why Contax not making the 35mm f1.4. Judging from Leica and Contax pricing. It is gonna be very expensive. Few of use will jump on it. But most people will use their logical mind to get the 17-35mm zoom and live with the f/2.8, and weight, and lesser quality. Compromise, right? With the Contax N1, slow AF is better than no AF. Also, it can use the C645 lenses. I can certain live with the N system, say happily. I have the first batch of the N1 body, recently sent to Contax to adjust the AF. Came back 10 days later and it seems to work much better, especially in low light.

Leica also stop making the super expensive fast lenses, e.g. 35-70 f/2.8 ($6000) and the 70-180 f/2.8 ($5000), and one of the fast prime too.

Talking about Leica, Marc, or anybody, is it worth it?

I am looking into the R8 for SLR and M7 for travel light. They seems to be very well built, of course. But not sure if the lenses worth the price, especially I've invested heavily on the N and C645. Any comment?

Albert.
 
Sounds like the best solution is to go with used C/Y gear for now and wait for the N system to mature before jumping systems (presuming it ever does). If you get mostly used gear it probably won't depreciate too much further, even after Kyocera pulls the plug on the entire line. The biggest problem will occur over time, as they stop servicing and supporting more of the bodies.

--Rick

p.s. What about the 645 system?
 
There is something comforting in what Rick says. A nice Contax RX and a few well chosen lenses that you KNOW perform in the manner we expect from Zeiss. I've long since moved on from the manual Contax gear, but I'm not sure the work has improved after all that investment (mostly due to digital needs at the professional level). But if not for that, I probably would have done just as well staying where I was.

Rick, I can't say enough good about the Contax 645. I use one with both film backs and a totally portable Kodak digital back. The AF is a bit slow, but the images are wonderful. Some people have problems with the power drain but I never did. Maybe the digital back battery helps.
There are some shots in my portfolio here from film and digital. I think the Zeiss lenses still makes this the best 645 out there... including the H1

Albert, of all the film cameras the Leica M is the one I've retained through it all. Many M lenses are extremely fast, sharp even wide open, and EXPENSIVE. There is a look to M shots that even my wife can pick out of a pile of prints. I cannot say the same for the R lenses anymore. Many are older designs that show their age (excluding the new 50/1.4 and 90/2).

The way to buy Leica M is used on the Leica forum at www.photo.net. Just list what you want (WTB) and the condition, and if anyone has one they'll let you know. That way you can buy a lens and sell it later for just about what you paid for it. You just have to have the big bucks going in.

The M 24/2.8 ASPH, 35/1.4 ASPH, 75/1.4 and 90/2AA are choices that have no equal IMO. But there are a few M mount V/C lenses that do pretty well for a LOT less money. The 28/1.9 is one of them IMO (it's the only non-Leica M mount lens I own, but I am considering the V/C 35/1.2 in the near future).

As far as a M7, you need to study the options in finders. And hold out for a M7 with the improved, flare resistant finder originally designed for the MP. One just like that sold on the Leica forum for $1,750 including shipping... which is a very good price.
 
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