Limited edition for Contaxinfo members

[jakob_groes]

Kyocera Kid wrote:

> Do you actually know
> that the lenses are the
> same [...] Are we to
> consider the "A/B/C
> quality" lens output


I am only relating to the fact that all - all - specifications of the two SL300R lenses are similar. Is it probable that two such lenses would have been developed at the same time indepently of each other then to be fitted in identical cameras?

The most likely explanation for any difference in performance (and I haven't seen any such difference documented in any published test) in my opinion would be due to different tolerances in quality control.

Please be aware that I have not drawn any conclusions in this issue beyond the above.

Kyocera is able to develop lenses or to buy designs from any third part. I have stated nothing about this.

Kyocera may buy a design from their long term business partner Zeiss and manufacture such lens under their own choice of tolerance levels.

If such lens is to be sold under the Zeiss brand, this will mean a higher fee to the originator as well as imply certain quality standards set by the license-giver.

Kyocera never claimed that their lens was comparable to the Zeiss-lens, even if all specifications are the same. Why blame them for selecting production output for different models at different prices?

Kind regards,

Jakob

 

[dirk]

Just a quick note regarding image quality and number of pixel of the Contax SL300R.

We have made a few test shots on the Cebit last week in Hannover/Germany. Nothing scientific. Just a few shots of different subjects with a Contax SL300R and the same shots with the brand new Fuji Finepix F700, which has 6MP. So this was also a comparison between Rtune technology and the new Super CCD of the 4th generation and finally a comparison between the Fuji lens in this F700 and the Carl Zeiss lens on the Contax SL300R.

We printed the shots directly from the SD/XD card on a Fuji Frontier 355 (costs around 150.000 Euro) in small sizes up to A4 (20x30cm).

I can tell you that the Contax SL300R won easily that competition. Colours, contrast etc. was significant better. And this with half of the pixel than the Fuji Finepix F700. So relax, the amount of the pixel is not the most important criteria. It seems that the RTune technology combined with the Zeiss lens and T-coating makes more difference than more MP and this new Super CCD of the 4th generation of Fuji.

I do think that the Contax SL300R is "enough" for prints up to A4 with very good results. For the purpose of a P&S it is excellent. The AF could be better in low light, but you can not expect wonders, if you get the camera for a price for which you normally do even not get a Zeiss lens alone.

 

[dirk]

o.k. Here some more information on how we are going forward:

After the voting today about the best logo, we will discus with Kyocera over the next 2 weeks how to engrave this logo onto the camera. As far as I can see it there are two possibilities:

1. It will be done in the factory itself. But this can mean that the cameras will be not there before mid May.

2. It could be done manually by a specialist. This would be probably faster then to interrupt and rearrange a production line. So we could hope in this case for the models beeing ready end of April.

The cameras will be hopefully coming to Europe mid/end of April. I am always cautious in predicting exact dates in such a matter. So please do not quote me on that. We also have to discus the costs of the camera incl. the engraving. I.e. How much more expensive it is getting to have the logo in different colours or more engraving vs. less engraving etc. Also we have to discus whether it is in the interest for the users to have special add-ons with it i.e. extra battery, extra memory card, st&ed certificates, your own name on it etc., which would make that model probably more expensive.

As soon as we have more details about these different possibilities, we would come back to you with the results for your feedback. I hope this will be latest til mid April or 3rd week of April. We will try to make the whole process as transparent as possible for you, since it is a product for you and designed - at least the logo - from you.

 

[jgban]

Dirk,
Do you think you could somehow send a poll with different price points to see how many members would be likely ordering the camera depending on the price ("very likely", "likely", "unlikely", "not at all", dependig of if it is 500, 600, 800, 1000 euros--- something like that)?

It's none of my business, but I am concerned that you are making all this effort without (?) having a good "guesstimate" of how many people would actually go for it, in particular for the possible different pricing options.

Juan

 

[dirk]

Hi Juan,

at the moment it would not make sense to talk about price ranges as long as we do not have more information about the price drivers. Our hope is to get this limited edition model for a very good price available, which means not more or at least not much more expensive than the standard Contax SL300R model.

This is why we have to discus with Kyocera over the coming weeks about the different price consequences, depending on what we want them to do. And I hope of course too, that Kyocera is valuing these efforts and this community with a reasonable price tag

But please bear in mind that we do not want to see any of these models 2 weeks later on the second hand market for the double price. This shall be not a tool to make a fortune. This is not for profit makers. It is a valuable camera for Contax enthusiasts.

There will be only 300 pieces on a first come first serve basis as soon as the order-slot gets opened. So we are actually not concerned that there will be left many after a few days

Because of this small number, we were originally thinking at the beginning, only to offer this model for subscribers or Patrons of Contaxinfo.com, who support this community as a paying member (donation). But we decided not to restrict it that way this time.

But your concern raises an important point and this is why we pay attention a lot on the pricing. As soon as we have more details on that, we will publish it here. Remember, it is all brand new, only a few days old. Normally something like this takes months to organize. We try to do this in weeks.

 

[lotusm50_is_Jensen]

If the SL300R "limited edition" works out to be the same as the street price of the standard Contax SL300R it would be worthwhile.

One question about Dirk's "test" of the Contax SL300R vs. the Fuji Finepix F700. I wonder how the Kyocera SL300R would compare against the Fuji.

 

[bobbl46]

Lotus M50 .... I think you might need to explain .... elaborate ..... re-phrase your question!

Kyocera Kid

 

[djg]

KK - you're starting to sound like Mojo-Jojo ...

 

[lotusm50_is_Jensen]

KK- I'm not sure I understand what needs to be re-phrased. Dirk compared the Contax SL300R vs. the Fuji F700. I was wondering how the Kyocera SL300R would compare vs. the Fuji F700. Would the Kyocera fare as well as the nearly identical Contax vs. the Fuji?

It seems odd to me, given the tremendous similarities between the Contax SL300R and the Kyoceras SL300R that NO ONE has given them a side by side comparision. (they even use the same model name! Couldn't Kyocera think of a different model name/number for the Contax -- or were they too lazy, or did they INTEND to imply that the Contax and Kyocera were the same??)

So. The Contax did well vs. the Fuji. Great. My question is (re-stated), would the Kyocera do as well as the Contax vs. the Fuji in the simple "test" Dirk performed?

 

[dirk]

Lotus,

I do disagree here. Since it is a limited edition and and with a special engraving on it, it is definitely worth more than the standard Contax SL300R. Look at the Leica prices and you get an indication. This is why I said I do not want to see 2 weeks later this limited edition for twice the price on ebay. This would be unfair for the people who could not get one because everything was sold too quickly.

We have not made comparison shots with the Kyocera SL300R. I do not think that this makes a lot of sense. We know that the quality control in a mass production vs. a Zeiss production is different by default. Even if you would get a Kyocera model that would come close to the Contax, this is no assurance for any other Kyocera model in the shelves. This is what is so different with the Zeiss lenses: The quality control during production.

Another important point is the T-coating. We made among these "testshots" (which are not really tests) also high contrast shots. In my experience with Yashica and Zeiss lenses for the Contax manual focus system these have been the most obvious situations, where you can see significant differences.

But if the criteria is not the maximum possible/ affordable image quality in a "sexy" design, then you can buy any digital P&S model out there. You can make with every P&S nowadays images where you can recognize the people which you are taking pictures of. But this has nothing to do with image qulaity or certain characteristics of a Zeiss lens in an image.