Limited edition for Contaxinfo members

[bobbl46]

Apologies Lotus M50 .... I wondered if you were trying to disguise a straight shoot-out between the Contax and Kyocera models by bringing the Fuji into the equation!

My mistake!

And .... I have not worked out yet if I should be amuzed or insulted by DJG's comparison .... I had to ask my students who Mojo Jojo is and got the general picture!

(Not sure about beating up the little girls bit though

)

Cheers, Kyocera Kid.

 

[lotusm50_is_Jensen]

I'm sorry. I find it a real stretch to equate a "limited edition" SL300R with a Leica. Yes, Leica puts out limited editions of their camera because they know that people will buy them -- mostly becuase they think they are a good investment, as they have noted how much the old classic Leicas have gone up in value. To some Leicas have become a fashion accessory -- get a different color to match your shoes. They have a fundamental value as a photographic tool -- the limited editions are hype, fashion, and speculation. But this collector/investor mentality doesn't apply nearly as much to Contax, and I would suspect it applies even less to the SL300R which as your comment implies is a Kyocera model with a different name and finish. While we are already paying $100 for that privilege, it is hard to beleive that tacking on another name (this time of a nice, functional, but little known website of users) is going to push the "desirability" of the camera up further to justify yet another price premium. Or do you think that everyone is going to rush out and get one becuase they feel the value will increase because the name of a website was tacked on?

This is all very interesting because we were being told what are wonderful performer the SL300R is and we should buy it for that reason. Now we should buy it, not because it is a good performer, but because it is "limited" (I would say the Contax was already a "limited" edition of the Kyocera) and we should pay more for the privilege (and the investment opportunity). Pure Bunk. And hype (or at least an attempt at it). This cheap Kyocera camera -- no matter how many names you tack on it -- will not have the appeal of the Leica, and will not have the long run durability of the Leica. This is basically a throw away camera/toy. Use it for a year, replace it with something else when it breaks or the technology becomes embarassingly obsolete.

It is further interesting in that Dirk strongly implies that the difference between the Kyocera and the Contax is one of quality control -- and accordingly it made no sense to test (huh??). Did it make no sense to test because the Kyocera might perform just as well as the Contax -- because you might have "got lucky" and got a Kyocera that had good quality? How bad is Kyocera's production process anyway? Kyocera is one of the world's leading hi-tech companies. Are you telling me that they can not consistently produce a quality product, that their product would have such wide swings in quality to produce obvious differences in output -- and that they would put the lower quality product out with their own name?? That just does not make sense.

Further the analogy between Yashica and Contax lenses is NOT appropriate. Their designs were different, and produced separately -- quite unlike the Kyocera and Contax SL300R's which have the same lens design and are produced on the same production line together. A Contax Zeiss T* 35mm lens was not just a higher quality control version of a Yashica lens.

As nice as some of the logo designs look, and as nice as it is for Kyocera to offer to do this (even if it is just to shift excess production), tacking the name of a website to a toy camera that already has it's name tacked on, is not going to produce market premiums of hundreds of dollars. Sorry. The best you can do is sell it at the street price and add a small premium of 10 to 25 euros or so and market it as a contribution to the web site. That would make more sense than trying to convince a group that buys camera to use them that the website name tacked on to the camera is somehow worth a significant premium (because it is not).

 

[nickser]

<font color="ff0000"><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica"><font size="+1">Hi Folks, Lets not get to wound up about all this!!
This is for Bob.

<font color="ff0000"><font face="verdana,arial,helvetica"><font size="+1">Paul

 

[nickser]

It would be interesting to see the comparison between the Kyocera and the Contax version's images, that is if some one was fortunate enough to be able to do this.

Paul

 

[dirk]

Lotus,

you are starting with a lot of assumptions here. Please understand, that I do neither have the time nor the motivation to convince you to buy a Contax product or a digital camera in general. If you are not interested in this limited edition, I am totally fine with it. But accept that it is a limited edition and a good one, even if not the Leica logo is "tacked" on it

The attraction of such a limited edition, no matter for which price, is very subjective. You have your opinion, I have mine.

"... Now we should buy it, not because it is a good performer, but because it is "limited" (I would say the Contax was already a "limited" edition of the Kyocera)..."

2x no. Wrong hypothesis.

"...will not have the appeal of the Leica, and will not have the long run durability of the Leica..."

Interesting hypothesis. So a Leica digital camera last longer than a Contax one? Sound not very logical for me.

"...This is basically a throw away camera/toy. Use it for a year, replace it with something else when it breaks or the technology becomes embarassingly obsolete..."

Pure assumption. That depends on your habits. You seem to search always for the newest model (see your comments above) no matter whether it make sense or not, so of course you will buy every 6 months a new digital camera. Whether you will be happy with that turnover is a different question. There is a German phrase/motto: "If you throw old things easily away, you will not keep the new ones for a long time."

I do not see why a 3MP camera does not fullfill my needs in one year, if it is doing that now already? Did your needs are changing over that time or do you buy the wrong tools for a specific purpose?

"...Dirk strongly implies that the difference between the Kyocera and the Contax is one of quality control..."

Yes, indeed. As far as lens production is concerned. Plus the T-coating. Talk with insiders about that.

"...and that they would put the lower quality product out with their own name?? That just does not make sense..."

Sorry, it makes sense. Apart from the Zeiss coating, which is not existing on the Kyocera model, there are definitely differences in quality control. I did not say that the Kyocera Lens is bad. It is a question about certain tolerances you accept in a production. Every manufacturer is doing this. Even your preferred Leica. Sigma made the same zoom (3.5-4.5/28-70) for Leica and others. Excellent tests. But you can bed that the Leica version at 5x the price of the Sigma one had less dilution in the production line.

"... analogy between Yashica and Contax .."

I was referring to a 4/80-200 zoom. As far as I remember, it was the same design for both, but Yashica without T* coating. If I should be not correct on this (I have no data now available), just take the Sigma ex&le above.

"...trying to convince a group that buys camera to use them that the website name tacked on to the camera is somehow worth a significant premium (because it is not)..."

Same argument as before. I am not trying to convince anybody here. I would be stupid to do that. I am sorry but I do see Contaxinfo as more than just any random website. Contaxinfo is a Contax Community, a kind of family. And this is a camera offered to this Contax family. If you see this so different and have a problem with this "community character", then I wonder why you are here and not at dpreview. You get there in depth scientific oriented tests, and you can blow up the "Siemensstern" at 800% in Photoshop. But this tells you nothing about real life usability of a 3MP vs. 4MP sensor.

You have the right on your opinion, I have the right on my opinion.

Or to use your ex&le: Not every Leica photographer is buying a Leica limited edition. This makes a limited edition not less attractive. So let the Contax users decide for themselves whether they want it or not.

The good thing is, nobody "has to" buy it. It is your own choice. So get relaxed

 

[spluff]

Dirk,

From my perspective, I appreciate what you are doing and I hope this venture turns out well - I wouldn't want future products and opportunites to be compromised by any experiences you have had with this one.

Cheers, Saras

 

[angusogg]

Let's not all get bent out of shape on this initiative. It's perhaps an interesting opportunity to buy a nice camera - but for me at least, the key factor is how long before it becomes available, and at what price.
Until these things are known, I don't think a value judgement can be made.
Just my tuppence worth......

 

[rbudding]

Dirk,

I appreciate the effort that you are making with this limited edition camera (along with all of the work that you put into this site). Not everyone is interested, which is fine. I, for one, will probably pass on this camera (saving my money for the NDII, I hope). But thank you, just the same, for a super effort.

Robert

 

[yonni]

Dear Dirk and all,
I for one am very excited about the limited edition. DO let me know when it becomes available. I hope that I voted correctly for my favorite logo. Cheers,
John/yonni

 

[jsmisc]

I agree,the Limited Edition is a great idea whether or not one buys one, but unfortunately some people will always carp.
John